[AT] Need help with newer compact tractor

Mike M meulenms at gmx.com
Sun May 22 17:33:10 PDT 2016 

Funny you should say that Cecil, my daily driver is a 2010 Chevy 1500 
6.2 gasser. I usually run 5/30 Mobil 1 Synthetic  in it and have since 
it was new to me with 45,000 miles on it. It now has 88,000 miles on it 
and needed the oil changed. I do it myself because everything is really 
easy to get to . This time however I went with Pennzoil 5/30 regular 
oil, because it was on sale. I had knee surgery on Monday, so my wife 
has had to drive me around. Now when it's cold and I get in the 
passenger side I hear what appears to be a rod knock or piston slap, not 
bad, but enough that I noticed. I'm just wondering if it's always been 
there, and I've never heard it because I was in the cab when I started 
it, or if it's new because of the oil. I've never had any problem with 
Pennzoil in fact my small engines love the stuff.

Mike M


On 5/22/2016 7:09 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
> The oil that I checked on through the API website was classified as
> being from new oil.  The re-run is listed as from recycled oil.  Warren
> now cans way too much oil to be only a re-refiner.   I think they bottle
> nearly 75% of the retail oil.  That said, I put Valvoline Nextgen 10w-30
> in my replacement engine in my f-150 to flush out whatever was in there,
> and 3000 miles later it had to go to the shop for a noise we thought was
> the A/C clutch and I had the guy change the oil while it was there
> because the filter is nearly impossible to get to. I had my own oil in
> the back and he put in some O'reilly parts house oil 5w-30 and it
> knocked every time I started it.   I had to add a qt of Lucas oil to
> stop the knock.    It was at the level mark after 2000 miles..  I
> replaced it with some more Nextgen and it does not use nor leak oil
> after another 4000 miles of some high speed driving.   It needs changing
> now and is still at the full mark....   I bought about 15 5qt jugs of
> that oil at O'reilly auto parts for $3 a jug.  I was going to use it for
> cheap hyd fluid etc, but it turned out to be ok for that truck so I just
> keep it for that one...
>
> Cecil in OKla
>
>
> On 5/22/2016 1:19 PM, charlie hill wrote:
>> Cecil,  Warren Petroleum is based in Dunn, North Carolina (or were anyway).
>> About 30 years ago when they were a much smaller company
>> I had the transmission fluid changed in a Chevy pickup. When I
>> went to pick the truck up he was just finishing and I saw the empty
>> oil jugs on the bench.  They were the wrong oil.  I forget which one
>> but not Dexron.  I got on the guy and he swore there was no difference.
>> I knew he was wrong, or lying, and took the truck to another shop and
>> had the fluid changed again. But, just to prove to myself that I was right
>> I called Warren Oil.  I told you all of that to tell you this.
>>
>> When I called they actually put Mr. Warren on the phone.  I've never been
>> more
>> impressed by someone I called on the phone.  He took the time to tell me in
>> great detail all about the different grades of ATF and went on to tell me
>> about his
>> company.  They are a re-processor of used oil but unless they have changed
>> they
>> do so with great care and attention to quality.  I have no problem with
>> anything they
>> make.
>>
>> I say they are a re-processor.  That was a long time ago and
>> I don't know if they have "graduated" into manufacture from raw materials or
>> not.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Cecil Bearden
>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 11:05 PM
>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>> Subject: Re: [AT] Need help with newer compact tractor
>>
>> Mike:
>> I wrestle with the oil price thing every day with so many engines and
>> systems I have here, and the lack of funds.   I really don't think that
>> one can know enough about the  oil he uses.   I have found  a good motor
>> oil ( Ranch Pro bottled by Warren Petroleum ) at the local farm store
>> and it has proven to be better than Mystic that I used for many years.
>> I really do not trust Mystic products like I once did.  They just do not
>> seem to be as good since Total bought them..  I also do use any
>> hydraulic oil additive in my Hydrostatic drives.   I was severely
>> admonished for it by the hydrostat rebuilder when I talked to them....
>>
>> Cecil in OKla
>>
>>
>> On 5/21/2016 6:03 PM, Mike M wrote:
>>> Thanks Cecil, I think we're getting to the bottom of this, as soon as my
>>> tractor gets home, I'm dropping the fluid and re-filling with Gulf or
>>> other higher quality equivalent. What seems expensive now will be cheap
>>> once the tractor is out of warranty.
>>>
>>> Mike M
>>>
>>> On 5/21/2016 5:45 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
>>>> Mike:
>>>> That TSC oil states it is a multi grace or multi Vis.  I found somewhere
>>>> it was a 10W30 or 40, If so, and the viscosity improvers are working
>>>> correctly or maybe a little more concentrated, then the viscosity could
>>>> be too thick at the higher heat.  That 400 SUS is at 100F, while the
>>>> others are specified at 100C, another 112 deg F higher......   I had
>>>> this same problem with the hydrostat trans in my old JD2750 Swather.  I
>>>> found out later that the transmission is no longer available nor
>>>> repairable.  I had to buy a used one.   The "yellow Bucket" THF I bought
>>>> for $19.99 was too thick for the system.  This I was told by the company
>>>> rep who used to overhaul these transmissions made by Vickers.  I bought
>>>> John Deere  Hytran that replaces the original 303 fluid.  It surely does
>>>> sound like your oil is overheating.  You may have a good civil case
>>>> against TSC, but chances of getting any results within our lifetime are
>>>> slim and none.
>>>>
>>>>       I had an 1155 V-8 Massey that was a good 130hp tractor, but we had
>>>> some leaks in the rear lift cylinders.   My Dad topped off the lift oil
>>>> with a barrel of Lathe and Milling machine Way oil I had bought surplus
>>>> from a retired machinist for $250.   That oil was over $35/gal in a drum
>>>> at the time.  It had an extra stickiness. The entire hydraulic system
>>>> turned to crap and it would barely move anything.  It started leaking at
>>>> every seal.   My retired father was just too busy to drive 10 miles to
>>>> buy a $25 bucket of the cheap stuff that would have worked fine..  It
>>>> was my fault according to him because I did not hide the barrel from
>>>> him!!!! It was marked in 4 inch letters WAY OIL  !    We ended up
>>>> selling the tractor for $2000 to the Mexican market.
>>>>
>>>> I use that yellow bucket stuff in my old dozers and trackhoe.  I have
>>>> noticed that if you open the bucket the additives are concentrated at
>>>> the bottom.   I try to turn the bucket over for an hour before I pour it
>>>> into the tank....
>>>>
>>>> Cecil in OKla
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/21/2016 12:42 PM, Mike M wrote:
>>>>> Cecil, I think you and Steve might be on to something with the
>>>>> viscosity. I wish the Traveller brand oil would give me the Centistokes
>>>>> value at 100C and I suspect I could call on Monday and find out. Because
>>>>> I've noticed a lack in hydraulic power the service guy adjusted the
>>>>> pressure to 2900 lbs, which is over the 2700 Mahindra calls for. He's
>>>>> not concerned with that as long as the bypass isn't being tripped. I
>>>>> think a change in oil may be in order. If the pump is hunting for oil it
>>>>> could be introducing air into the system.  I managed to find the Gulf
>>>>> product at a local Autozone store of all places.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike M
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/21/2016 1:07 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
>>>>>> I looked up some viscosity sites, and 20w motor oil is 68 centistokes
>>>>>> and 30w is 100 centistokes.   57.5 would be closer to 10W motor oil
>>>>>> which is what my old Ingersoll compressor calls for or Dexron ATF or
>>>>>> type A transmission fluid. So, I would be thinking that the oil is too
>>>>>> thick and the pump is scavenging and giving you a mixture of oil and
>>>>>> air
>>>>>> which can do weird things to rubber components at high pressure.    We
>>>>>> also do not know  if this tractor works at 3000 psi or 1500
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cecil in OKla
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/21/2016 7:26 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Mike:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When fluids are REALLY different, they can certainly eat up seals.
>>>>>>> But the
>>>>>>> magnitude of difference I am talking about is like the difference
>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>> brake fluid and petroleum-based oils.   For example:    DOT 3, 4, and
>>>>>>> 5.1
>>>>>>> require EPDM rubber for seals.  But if EPDM sees petroleum, it softens
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> swells... like 25% or more.  Like a frost heave, this swelling is
>>>>>>> impossible to contain.  It extrudes itself right out the glands.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For this to be the case, what came out of that TSC pail would have to
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> pretty wrong, is my gut feel.  But someone could have really screwed
>>>>>>> up at
>>>>>>> the factory I suppose... in that case you would not be the only one
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> problems!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is this the fluid you put in?
>>>>>>> http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/traveller-universal-tractor-trans-hydraulic-fluid-5-gal
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One thing to note here is the viscosity.  TSC fluid specs 400 Saybolt
>>>>>>> Universal Seconds (SUS or SSU) at 100F (38C).  An online calculator
>>>>>>> tells
>>>>>>> me 400 SUS is 86.2 Centistokes.  They SHOULD, but fail, to say
>>>>>>> anything
>>>>>>> about viscosity index and viscosity at elevated temperature 100C.  I
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>> looked up the Gulf fluid you mentioned, one that Mahindra specifically
>>>>>>> calls for, and find it is 57.5 CentiStokes at 40C.  Whoa.  57.5 is
>>>>>>> pretty
>>>>>>> different from 86.2.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure what to make of all this and nothing I'm saying here is real
>>>>>>> definitive, just trying to shed some more light on the situation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SO
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So about a year ago I bought a Mahindra 4035 40 HP diesel tractor. I
>>>>>>>> starts, runs and works fine, but I've had some problems with leaks
>>>>>>>> lately. At the 100 hour mark Mahindra wanted me to change the
>>>>>>>> hydraulic
>>>>>>>> filter, which sits on the side of the rear housing. I talked to the
>>>>>>>> service guy at the dealership and he said I'd lose about 2 gallons of
>>>>>>>> fluid when I did that, even with the one rear tire up on a block. It
>>>>>>>> holds 10 gallons overall, and TSC had their premium universal
>>>>>>>> hydraulic/transmission fluid on sale (which states it meets or exceed
>>>>>>>> Mahindra specs)  for $35 for 5 gallons. For me it seemed like a no
>>>>>>>> brainer to just dump the fluid and replace it rather that trying to
>>>>>>>> guess how much I'd lose.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Everything went fine, I had to remove a side cover as well as the
>>>>>>>> filter
>>>>>>>> to get to a screen they wanted to have cleaned on the first service
>>>>>>>> only. After that the tractor performed as it should but after about
>>>>>>>> 50
>>>>>>>> hours I've started to develop leaks in the hydraulic system. They
>>>>>>>> fixed
>>>>>>>> one by a large square diverter valve under the tractor and today they
>>>>>>>> are fixing another leak from the power steering block up by the
>>>>>>>> steering
>>>>>>>> wheel.  I called today and talked to the service guy and he says they
>>>>>>>> are puzzled because the leaking o-rings they are looking at today
>>>>>>>> appear
>>>>>>>> burned, as if exposed to excessive heat. Another concern that I
>>>>>>>> brought
>>>>>>>> up to them is that the loader doesn't seem to have quite the lifting
>>>>>>>> capacity as when it was new.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My question is, can fluid cause these type of problems? In the manual
>>>>>>>> they call our for Mahindra fluid, Gulf Universal Tractor Transmission
>>>>>>>> fluid, Mobil 424, Shell Donax and a few others, all of which are
>>>>>>>> nearly
>>>>>>>> impossible to find.  Can a fluid be SO wrong that it would cause
>>>>>>>> problems? Right now they are looking at anything that might be
>>>>>>>> causing a
>>>>>>>> continual "deadheading" situation, but with that little 3 cylinder
>>>>>>>> diesel I think I would notice that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any and all thoughts greatly appreciated.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mike M
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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