[AT] Need help with newer compact tractor

Cecil Bearden crbearden at copper.net
Sat May 21 20:05:49 PDT 2016 

Mike:
I wrestle with the oil price thing every day with so many engines and 
systems I have here, and the lack of funds.   I really don't think that 
one can know enough about the  oil he uses.   I have found  a good motor 
oil ( Ranch Pro bottled by Warren Petroleum ) at the local farm store 
and it has proven to be better than Mystic that I used for many years.  
I really do not trust Mystic products like I once did.  They just do not 
seem to be as good since Total bought them..  I also do use any 
hydraulic oil additive in my Hydrostatic drives.   I was severely 
admonished for it by the hydrostat rebuilder when I talked to them....

Cecil in OKla


On 5/21/2016 6:03 PM, Mike M wrote:
> Thanks Cecil, I think we're getting to the bottom of this, as soon as my
> tractor gets home, I'm dropping the fluid and re-filling with Gulf or
> other higher quality equivalent. What seems expensive now will be cheap
> once the tractor is out of warranty.
>
> Mike M
>
> On 5/21/2016 5:45 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
>> Mike:
>> That TSC oil states it is a multi grace or multi Vis.  I found somewhere
>> it was a 10W30 or 40, If so, and the viscosity improvers are working
>> correctly or maybe a little more concentrated, then the viscosity could
>> be too thick at the higher heat.  That 400 SUS is at 100F, while the
>> others are specified at 100C, another 112 deg F higher......   I had
>> this same problem with the hydrostat trans in my old JD2750 Swather.  I
>> found out later that the transmission is no longer available nor
>> repairable.  I had to buy a used one.   The "yellow Bucket" THF I bought
>> for $19.99 was too thick for the system.  This I was told by the company
>> rep who used to overhaul these transmissions made by Vickers.  I bought
>> John Deere  Hytran that replaces the original 303 fluid.  It surely does
>> sound like your oil is overheating.  You may have a good civil case
>> against TSC, but chances of getting any results within our lifetime are
>> slim and none.
>>
>>     I had an 1155 V-8 Massey that was a good 130hp tractor, but we had
>> some leaks in the rear lift cylinders.   My Dad topped off the lift oil
>> with a barrel of Lathe and Milling machine Way oil I had bought surplus
>> from a retired machinist for $250.   That oil was over $35/gal in a drum
>> at the time.  It had an extra stickiness. The entire hydraulic system
>> turned to crap and it would barely move anything.  It started leaking at
>> every seal.   My retired father was just too busy to drive 10 miles to
>> buy a $25 bucket of the cheap stuff that would have worked fine..  It
>> was my fault according to him because I did not hide the barrel from
>> him!!!! It was marked in 4 inch letters WAY OIL  !    We ended up
>> selling the tractor for $2000 to the Mexican market.
>>
>> I use that yellow bucket stuff in my old dozers and trackhoe.  I have
>> noticed that if you open the bucket the additives are concentrated at
>> the bottom.   I try to turn the bucket over for an hour before I pour it
>> into the tank....
>>
>> Cecil in OKla
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/21/2016 12:42 PM, Mike M wrote:
>>> Cecil, I think you and Steve might be on to something with the
>>> viscosity. I wish the Traveller brand oil would give me the Centistokes
>>> value at 100C and I suspect I could call on Monday and find out. Because
>>> I've noticed a lack in hydraulic power the service guy adjusted the
>>> pressure to 2900 lbs, which is over the 2700 Mahindra calls for. He's
>>> not concerned with that as long as the bypass isn't being tripped. I
>>> think a change in oil may be in order. If the pump is hunting for oil it
>>> could be introducing air into the system.  I managed to find the Gulf
>>> product at a local Autozone store of all places.
>>>
>>> Mike M
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/21/2016 1:07 PM, Cecil Bearden wrote:
>>>> I looked up some viscosity sites, and 20w motor oil is 68 centistokes
>>>> and 30w is 100 centistokes.   57.5 would be closer to 10W motor oil
>>>> which is what my old Ingersoll compressor calls for or Dexron ATF or
>>>> type A transmission fluid. So, I would be thinking that the oil is too
>>>> thick and the pump is scavenging and giving you a mixture of oil and air
>>>> which can do weird things to rubber components at high pressure.    We
>>>> also do not know  if this tractor works at 3000 psi or 1500
>>>>
>>>> Cecil in OKla
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/21/2016 7:26 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>>> Hi Mike:
>>>>>
>>>>> When fluids are REALLY different, they can certainly eat up seals.  But the
>>>>> magnitude of difference I am talking about is like the difference between
>>>>> brake fluid and petroleum-based oils.   For example:    DOT 3, 4, and 5.1
>>>>> require EPDM rubber for seals.  But if EPDM sees petroleum, it softens and
>>>>> swells... like 25% or more.  Like a frost heave, this swelling is
>>>>> impossible to contain.  It extrudes itself right out the glands.
>>>>>
>>>>> For this to be the case, what came out of that TSC pail would have to be
>>>>> pretty wrong, is my gut feel.  But someone could have really screwed up at
>>>>> the factory I suppose... in that case you would not be the only one with
>>>>> problems!
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this the fluid you put in?
>>>>> http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/traveller-universal-tractor-trans-hydraulic-fluid-5-gal
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing to note here is the viscosity.  TSC fluid specs 400 Saybolt
>>>>> Universal Seconds (SUS or SSU) at 100F (38C).  An online calculator tells
>>>>> me 400 SUS is 86.2 Centistokes.  They SHOULD, but fail, to say anything
>>>>> about viscosity index and viscosity at elevated temperature 100C.  I then
>>>>> looked up the Gulf fluid you mentioned, one that Mahindra specifically
>>>>> calls for, and find it is 57.5 CentiStokes at 40C.  Whoa.  57.5 is pretty
>>>>> different from 86.2.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure what to make of all this and nothing I'm saying here is real
>>>>> definitive, just trying to shed some more light on the situation.
>>>>>
>>>>> SO
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 2:11 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So about a year ago I bought a Mahindra 4035 40 HP diesel tractor. I
>>>>>> starts, runs and works fine, but I've had some problems with leaks
>>>>>> lately. At the 100 hour mark Mahindra wanted me to change the hydraulic
>>>>>> filter, which sits on the side of the rear housing. I talked to the
>>>>>> service guy at the dealership and he said I'd lose about 2 gallons of
>>>>>> fluid when I did that, even with the one rear tire up on a block. It
>>>>>> holds 10 gallons overall, and TSC had their premium universal
>>>>>> hydraulic/transmission fluid on sale (which states it meets or exceed
>>>>>> Mahindra specs)  for $35 for 5 gallons. For me it seemed like a no
>>>>>> brainer to just dump the fluid and replace it rather that trying to
>>>>>> guess how much I'd lose.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everything went fine, I had to remove a side cover as well as the filter
>>>>>> to get to a screen they wanted to have cleaned on the first service
>>>>>> only. After that the tractor performed as it should but after about 50
>>>>>> hours I've started to develop leaks in the hydraulic system. They fixed
>>>>>> one by a large square diverter valve under the tractor and today they
>>>>>> are fixing another leak from the power steering block up by the steering
>>>>>> wheel.  I called today and talked to the service guy and he says they
>>>>>> are puzzled because the leaking o-rings they are looking at today appear
>>>>>> burned, as if exposed to excessive heat. Another concern that I brought
>>>>>> up to them is that the loader doesn't seem to have quite the lifting
>>>>>> capacity as when it was new.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My question is, can fluid cause these type of problems? In the manual
>>>>>> they call our for Mahindra fluid, Gulf Universal Tractor Transmission
>>>>>> fluid, Mobil 424, Shell Donax and a few others, all of which are nearly
>>>>>> impossible to find.  Can a fluid be SO wrong that it would cause
>>>>>> problems? Right now they are looking at anything that might be causing a
>>>>>> continual "deadheading" situation, but with that little 3 cylinder
>>>>>> diesel I think I would notice that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any and all thoughts greatly appreciated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike M
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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