[AT] EcoDiesel update

Wed Aug 31 14:25:00 PDT 2016

Steve,

Well said!!!

You reminded me how CAT gambled on a new technology a few years back, and ended up dropping out of the over the road truck engine business for a few years. Basically there "science fair project" was not advanced enough to pass emissions tests. My guess is they could hand build a few early prototypes to work, but not able to mass produce good enough to pass regulations.

It also reminded me of a senior project in college many years back trying to evaluate the moment of momentum of the incoming air for Cummins engines. That project was a disaster, and I still struggle with a full understanding the question. Got a nice tour of the Cummins engine plant out of it, but not much else.

Thanks
Dennis

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 31, 2016, at 4:04 PM, Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I drive (for the time being) a VW TDI and I'm pretty interested in the
> technology.  The emission scandal has dampened my spirits, however.  I was
> reading some TDI article online and in the comments section, somebody
> summed it up really well.  Paraphrasing:  "these cars are basically a
> science fair from the turbo back"
> 
> 
> SO
> 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 2:38 PM, Dennis Johnson <moscowengnr at outlook.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> All,
>> 
>> Steve, thanks for the Banks link. It had some good information.
>> 
>> Ram uses the Euro ESP formula full synthetic oil (think it is formulated
>> from natural gas or something similar). Mobil One ESP at $12.99 a liter, 11
>> liters per oil change is what I used since I started changing its myself.
>> It only has been available at local auto parts store this year. Before that
>> dealer did all oil changes since that was the only place to get it readily.
>> Still have to buy filter from dealer. I might be able to plan ahead and
>> find on Internet, but I have not got there yet.
>> 
>> Stock Ram did not have any temp readout, so until yesterday I did not have
>> a clue about what the temperatures were running. I have heard somewhere
>> that the EcoDiesels  run a bit hotter at the turbo that some other engines,
>> and with just a few miles after the EDGE gauge system, I did not have a
>> clue what any of the temperatures were running. With 320 F idle temp, not
>> sure that I will be able to get under 300 F before shutdown. That is why I
>> was wanting some idea of normal temperatures for this engine.
>> 
>> I have 2 old pre/post lube systems I purchased for by Buick GN, and never
>> got it installed before I parked/stored the GN waiting for time and funds
>> to rebuild it. Might be the time to look at adding this, or something like
>> it. I like the accumulator idea better, and have thought of that with a
>> simple check valve and orifice as a simpler method to do post lube. With
>> that you do not need to drill the oil pan and run extra lines and electric
>> motors, and you get much of the benefit.
>> 
>> After some sleep and fresh coffee, I got to thinking that excess oil may
>> have been what cause the DPF to plug and not regen to open up. My oil level
>> is very low and it probably went into the DPF.
>> I believe that the new DPF, Cat's, DEF systems as well as the Ultra high
>> injection pressures on the newer diesels still are in there infancy, and
>> are having issues across the board. My brother is warranty administrator
>> for a John Deere dealer group, and they have issues with these systems on
>> tractors. Before retirement, these items were causing serious problems on
>> the Peterbilt/Cat oilfield trucks in the oil patch for Schlumberger and
>> others. My son drives for a crane company and these systems cause issues on
>> the newer Mack trucks they have. Friends with recent 6.0 Fords have short
>> life on injections systems. Neighbor is service writer for BMW dealership
>> and told about similar emission parts failure issues on vehicles he sees
>> (even when gas engines).
>> Reminds me of the 1973 auto engines - probably one of the worse years for
>> engines because new regulations came into place and the manufacturers had
>> not yet fine tuned the solutions. Car's of that year had much higher issues
>> than the 1972's because of technology in it's infancy.
>> With most any new technology, the first users end up paying more for the
>> learning curve with the new technology. The benefit is they get to have the
>> benefits of this technology sooner. Age old question is when is the best
>> time to jump on the new technology.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Dennis
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> On Aug 31, 2016, at 12:15 PM, Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Banks knows a thing or two about turbos.  Check out Myth #7 at this link:
>>> 
>>> http://bankspower.com/techarticles/show/30-Turbo-Diesel-Fact-&-Fiction
>>> 
>>> 
>>> SO
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 11:33 AM, charlie hill <
>> charliehill at embarqmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> From what I've read and from my limited experience with heavy trucks,
>>>> turbo life is ended by bearing failure and bearing failure comes from
>> not
>>>> letting the turbo cool properly before shutdown.  All Turbo engines
>> should
>>>> be allowed to run idle for several minutes before shut down unless they
>>>> have oilers on them that keep them lubed prior to engine start.  When
>> you
>>>> shut them down hot the heat from the turbo burns away the oil on the
>>>> bearings
>>>> and when you restart the bearings are dry.
>>>> 
>>>> Charlie
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Dennis Johnson
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2016 12:56 AM
>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] EcoDiesel update
>>>> 
>>>> Cecil
>>>> 
>>>> My Grand National has close to 170K and needs a third turbo. Think turbo
>>>> life may inversely relate to engine size.
>>>> It may also be effected by emissions junk on newer vehicles, that
>> require
>>>> more back pressure and higher temperatures to overcome DPF filters and
>>>> Catalytic converters. Norms for engines before this junk do not fit well
>>>> with engines that have this junk.
>>>> Various forums discuss some EcoDiesel's having turbo issues between 100k
>>>> and
>>>> 150k.
>>>> 
>>>> Dennis
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 30, 2016, at 10:33 PM, Cecil Bearden <crbearden at copper.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would think that 111K miles is rather early to be having trouble with
>>>>> this.   I have turbos on Ford/navistar powerstrokes that have over 250K
>>>>> on the original Turbo.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cecil in OKla
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 8/30/2016 8:38 PM, Dennis Johnson wrote:
>>>>>> My Ram EcoDiesel let me down a few weeks ago at about 111,000 miles,
>> the
>>>>>> evening before I had planned a trip.
>>>>>> The "need to regen the DPF" light came on for a minute as I was
>> parking.
>>>>>> I stopped to unload something, and then restarted. When I restarted it
>>>>>> immediately went to the "DPF full - go to dealer with $$$$$$" message,
>>>>>> and was in the "Limp mode" of 35 MPH max, and not up shifting much.
>>>>>> Got back from trip and I decided I needed to do something different,
>> so
>>>> I
>>>>>> sent my ECM of to PPEI to repair/update it, and then had the entire
>>>>>> exhaust system "rebuilt". Got things back, and finished installing
>> stuff
>>>>>> yesterday and today. First test drive seems to have improved mileage a
>>>>>> little bit. Will know more after a little time and a few more miles.
>>>>>> Also installed an "EDGE" brand engine monitor that gives several
>> things
>>>>>> from the OBDII port. It is an impressive digital gauge set. It might
>>>> also
>>>>>> be able love to read or clear codes, but I need to read more of the
>>>>>> manual to figure it out.
>>>>>> This system came with a separate thermocouple for EGT, but I have not
>>>>>> installed it yet. After seeing there is factory data, not sure that I
>>>>>> need to drill another hole to get a second data point.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Exhaust gas temp 1  (assume turbo inlet) - running 750/770 at 70 MPH,
>>>>>> over 1020 F at full throttle and 25 PSI boost for a little bit. Runs
>>>>>> 300/325 it idle.
>>>>>> Exhaust gas temp 2 (assume turbo outlet or DPF inlet)  - running
>> 200/203
>>>>>> at 70 MPH
>>>>>> Trans Temp
>>>>>> Speed
>>>>>> Gear engaged - really nice to see - this is something that was lacking
>>>>>> with stock gauges.
>>>>>> Coolant Temp
>>>>>> Oil Temp
>>>>>> Boost, - running 11-14 at 70 MPH flat ground, up to 25 at full
>> throttle
>>>>>> Soot % ???
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Does anyone have any good ranges for these parameters, especially the
>>>> EGT
>>>>>> 1 and EGT 2
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Let me know??
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Now, next thing is that 111K may be close to the limit on the original
>>>>>> turbo. Looks like it is leaking oil into the intake, so that may be
>> the
>>>>>> next project.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Dennis
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
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