[AT] Modern Gasoline

Fri Aug 26 15:23:46 PDT 2016

The pickup pipe in the bottom of the tank has a screen on the bottom.  
It is plugged.  there is a ball in there somewhere, I cannot remember if 
it is at the tip or the bottom of the pickup. I guess you do not have 
the carb with the little diaphragm on the side.

Cecil in oKla

On 26/08/2016 16:08, charlie hill wrote:
> If the carb has a bowl with a drain plug on it, dump it and run some fresh
> gas
> through it.  If you're lucky you won't have to clean the guts of the carb.
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mogrits
> Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 2:20 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] Modern Gasoline
>
> Well, the "old gas" bug bit me today on, of all things, an edger with a
> Briggs with the simple carb.
>
> Apparently, I put it up last year with 1/2 tank ethanol gas in it, and
> today topped off the tank with non-ethanol and took it to my Lodge to edge
> the sidewalks. Well, it would not start. A shot of ether and it fired right
> up, so I took off the gas cap and noticed a lot of crud in the tank bottom.
> Poured all that out on a pesky patch of English Ivy and sprayed in some
> carb and choke cleaner followed by a little good gas. Swished it around and
> dumped all that out and topped up with fresh gas. Still no joy except with
> ether.
>
> So, this weekend I'll take off the tank and clean it proper, and clean the
> screen on the bottom of the carb dip tube and hopefully that's all it will
> take.
>
> Warren
>
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 11:01 AM, cecil bearden <crbearden at copper.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I rebuilt 6 horiz shaft I/C briggs engines on fire pumps a few years
>> back. Had to bore them out .020..  They ran great and were dependable.
>> That overhead valve design with the "no points" system was a pile of crap.
>>
>> Cecil in OKla
>>
>>
>> On 8/26/2016 9:31 AM, Ken Knierim wrote:
>>> Cecil,
>>>       I am guessing the overhead I/C versions have issues I've not seen
>> as I
>>> have no experience with them. The flathead vertical shaft versions of
>>> the
>>> I/C engines were lawn-service-monkey resistant... that's like saying
>>> "baggage handler resistant". They were tough.
>>>       That said, I have a Intek OHV Briggs on a JD-labeled riding mower
>> that
>>> came to me in pieces, and between the bent pushrods and blown fuel pump
>> I'm
>>> not impressed with it yet. Again, heat and service is partially to
>>> blame,
>>> but they also recommend tearing the shroud off them and cleaning the
>>> cylinder head every so often. The average homeowner won't (didn't) do
>> that,
>>> and once the fins plug, the engine starts to heat and the head warps;
>>> usually after 5 to 7 years from what I'm reading. Once it's warped,
>>> combustion gases leaked into the crankcase will blow oil out on the fins
>>> and will also blow the fuel pump diaphram out. The engines are designed
>> to
>>> have about 400-500 hour lifespans with regular service. Severe
>> dirt/service
>>> and heat are the bane of any engine, and air-cooled equipment usually
>> comes
>>> up short in on a 115+ degree day. I tried getting by with cleaning up
>>> everything but I need to spring for the $100 head assembly to fix it
>> right,
>>> and I haven't pried my wallet open because it's still running (and
>>> leaking.) The rest of the tractor is pretty worn out and probably should
>> be
>>> replaced anyway. It took over an hour of welding with my MIG to get the
>>> deck back together, plus all new spindles, blades, belts and pulleys.
>>>       Then I look at how tired my 8N with the flail mower is (my main
>> mower),
>>> and think that the cylinder head isn't so expensive... maybe I can get
>>> by
>>> until November with what I have.
>>>
>>> Ken in AZ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 6:54 AM, cecil bearden <crbearden at copper.net>
>> wrote:
>>>> I had one of the later model I/C Briggs engines on a Pacer pump that I
>>>> used to build a fire pump trailer rig with.   I could not keep that
>>>> engine running,  It would act like it had a fuel problem, and i
>>>> replaced
>>>> the carb parts, spark plug, and it was the same.  Would run like it was
>>>> starving for gas.   I finally changed the coil and it made no
>>>> difference.   I sanded down the flywheel and magnets and it ran fine.
>>>> Installed the old coil and it ran fine.  If there was a heavy dew, the
>>>> flywheel rusted and the engine was crap.
>>>>
>>>> I had a fire and lost a storage van with over $30k( at last count)
>>>> worth
>>>> of parts in it.  I tried to get that engine running, but it was just
>>>> too
>>>> much time to sand down the flywheel again.   I wrote Briggs & Stratton
>>>> later and told them just what I thought of their engine, and they
>>>> referred me to the servicing dealer...
>>>>
>>>> I have never bought another overhead valve Briggs engine unless it
>>>> wasinstalled on a piece of equip.  I have replaced several Briggs
>>>> engines and some Tecumseh engines with the CHONDA engines from Harbor
>>>> freight and have no regrets.  They start on the first or second pull
>>>> and
>>>> run fine. I am sonsidering using the big twin cylinder on the zero turn
>>>> mower we have that has been down for 2 years because I have to nearly
>>>> dismantle the mower and engine to install new points.   I keep 2 on
>>>> hand
>>>> in case something goes wrong with the small engines I have on my other
>>>> equipment.   I don't have the patience or time to screw with working on
>>>> one. When you get older, working time gets to be very valuable
>> commodity.
>>>> I used to spend a lot of time trying to save a few bucks.  Now, throw
>>>> it
>>>> in the scrap and go on...
>>>>
>>>> Cecil in Okla
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/26/2016 8:30 AM, Ken Knierim wrote:
>>>>> Mike,
>>>>> In fleet service these mowers ran up to about 6 hours per day in temps
>> up
>>>>> to 110 degrees and many times HUGE clouds of dust. The guy running the
>>>>> place had a standing order that if the oil wasn't clear it needed to
>>>>> be
>>>>> changed, and flipping them over didn't exactly drain all the oil (his
>>>>> schedule and money, not mine). The mowers were also washed down when
>>>>> we
>>>>> serviced them, and if the paint wasn't good they got a spritz of that
>>>> too.
>>>>> These were very low cost Briggs engines; Briggs later came out with
>>>>> the
>>>> I/C
>>>>> engines but the owner was too cheap (sorry, "frugal") to get them. The
>>>>> replacement engines usually had the serial numbers ground off them
>>>>> too.
>>>> We
>>>>> had to replace wheels and bearings every so often too... the ball
>>>> bearings
>>>>> would wear out and the plastic wheels had to be replaced occasionally
>> if
>>>> it
>>>>> was someone's favorite mower deck... these were used a LOT.
>>>>>
>>>>> Before they were loaded onto trucks, all the engines had to be started
>>>> and
>>>>> ran awhile (the apartment complex next door wasn't real thrilled. up
>>>>> to
>>>> 15
>>>>> Briggs engines warming up at 4 AM.. then a dozen or so weedeaters...)
>> It
>>>>> was a weird place to work, but I preferred to service the equipment
>>>> rather
>>>>> than push a mower. The next place I worked at got some of the I/C
>> engines
>>>>> with the magnetron ignitions. Oh, what a difference... they didn't
>>>>> wear
>>>> out
>>>>> in spite of a much longer service interval, and they started a lot
>> better
>>>>> because Briggs actually spent another 10 cents putting bronze bushings
>> on
>>>>> the carb throttle shafts (and the ignition was a LOT better). :)
>>>>>
>>>>> One other thing... when one of the cheap engines wore down enough to
>> pull
>>>>> the head and start looking in it (adjust valves, etc) it was cheaper
>>>>> to
>>>>> toss and replace than spend increasing amounts of time on it. And to
>>>>> be
>>>>> honest, I don't recall EVER having one of the I/C engines apart. I
>>>> believe
>>>>> they were steel sleeved engines, ball bearings on the crank, better
>> carbs
>>>>> and ignitions and so forth. And by that time, the new place I was at
>>>> didn't
>>>>> push things as hard. That was 30+ years ago though.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken in AZ
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 9:53 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you explain further Ken? I've never heard of this type of service
>>>>>> interval?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike M
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/25/2016 4:51 PM, Ken Knierim wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Th, oil changed every 2 days, Engines would last
>>>>>>> 4-6 months.
>>>>>>> Ken in AZ
>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Stephen Offiler <
>> soffiler at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is interesting stuff, and it's the reason I posed the
>>>>>>>> question.
>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>> not sure if I've ever seen one of these types of carbs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> SO
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:49 PM, <rlgoss at twc.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But there were actually several different designs of those
>>>>>>>>> carb/gas
>>>>>> tank
>>>>>>>>> combinations that looked alike but operated differently. Some had
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> built-in settling bowl that the built-in gas pump had to keep
>>>>>>>>> full-to-overflowing for the engine to run.  The fuel pump was
>> FOREVER
>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>> bad so I bought replacement diaphragms in lots of 10 so I didn't
>> have
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> make a shopping trip whenever I needed one.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Larry
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---- Mogrits <mogrits at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Stephen,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In a word: simplicity.The old Briggs carbs had no floats to get
>>>>>>>>> saturated,
>>>>>>>>>> no needle and seat to stick or wear out, no tiny passages and no
>>>> float
>>>>>>>>> bowl
>>>>>>>>>> to collect crud to ruin the above mentioned parts. I guess they
>> used
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> entire tank as a "bowl". I realize they are limited in that the
>> carb
>>>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>>>> sit on top of the tank, but man, were they simple. If the motor
>>>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>> start or run correctly, you just unscrewed the gas cap and looked
>> in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> tank. If you saw water or trash in it, two bolts had it off and
>>>>>>>> emptied.
>>>>>>>>>> Warren
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 8:17 AM, Stephen Offiler <
>>>> soffiler at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Warren:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting.  From a purely technical standpoint, how is the old
>>>> B&S
>>>>>>>>>>> venturi carb superior?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> SO
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mogrits <mogrits at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Stephen, I have no idea, as I haven't left gas in one that
>>>>>>>>>>>> long,
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>> someone would mate the old Briggs and Stratton venturi carb (no
>>>>>>>> bowl
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> float) to the Honda OHV design with electronic ignition, they
>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> the ideal small engine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Warren
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 12:45 PM, Stephen Offiler <
>>>>>>>>> soffiler at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do those Chonda engines run on 18-month old gas like the real
>>>>>>>>> thing?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> SO
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Mogrits <mogrits at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Charlie, that should indeed work as a replacement for him. I
>>>>>>>> put
>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those on a Murray 20" push mower body to create what I call
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Frankenmower".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Starts just like a Honda, and cuts through most anything
>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>>>>>>> complaint,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> including "monkey grass" or lariope. Some people have adaptor
>>>>>>>>> issues
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mating
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them up, but the review section of the Harbor Freight page
>>>>>>>> gives
>>>>>>>>>>>>> solutions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to almost all of those.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Around here we call them "Chondas", as they appear to be
>>>>>>>>> knock-offs
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Honda OHV design.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warren
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 6:47 PM, charlie hill <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> charliehill at embarqmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dick wouldn't this work as a replacement for the 5.5
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vertical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.harborfreight.com/55-hp-173cc-ohv-vertical-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shaft-gas-engine-carb-69731.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Charlie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Dick Day
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2016 11:20 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Modern Gasoline
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Several years ago, I converted our 15-year old Generac
>>>>>>>>> generator to
>>>>>>>>>>>> LP.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always did start easy (electric start) but with LP I can
>>>>>>>>> connect it
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 500gallon LP tank if we ever got stranded by a blizzard.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My other gas implements (push mower, 2 garden tractors,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> power
>>>>>>>>>>> washer,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tiller) don't always start as easy even though I would let
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> gas
>>>>>>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the fall.    My plan was to convert every gas engine we
>>>>>>>> had.
>>>>>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got a Troy Built sickle mower. That was next on my list to
>>>>>>>>> convert
>>>>>>>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> discovered that there are no engines I can buy to replace
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> vertical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5.5hp Briggs that's on there.  I don't think that converting
>>>>>>>>> it to
>>>>>>>>>>> LP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> necessarily hurt the engine but decided not to take a chance
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around to the other engines. I retire next spring. Once that
>>>>>>>>>>> happens,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get back on my LP conversion project.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Stephen Offiler <
>>>>>>>>>>> soffiler at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just pulled out my power washer and realized it has not
>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> March 2015.  Half a tank of fuel still sloshing around.  On
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> upside, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am always careful to turn off the gas and run the carb dry.
>>>>>>>>> I am
>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> careful to add Sta-Bil as soon as I purchase gas.  We have
>>>>>>>>>>> ethanol
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gas around here like in most places in the USA.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It started on the first pull.  Literally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Engine is a 9HP Honda GX270 (I think).  I suppose there
>>>>>>>>> might be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> qualities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the engine (strong spark, strong fuel vaporization in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> carb,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever...) that help it run on crappy old gas.  Or
>>>>>>>>> something.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shaking my head in amazement.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SO
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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