[AT] Modern Gasoline

Fri Aug 26 08:01:46 PDT 2016

I rebuilt 6 horiz shaft I/C briggs engines on fire pumps a few years 
back. Had to bore them out .020..  They ran great and were dependable.  
That overhead valve design with the "no points" system was a pile of crap.

Cecil in OKla

On 8/26/2016 9:31 AM, Ken Knierim wrote:
> Cecil,
>      I am guessing the overhead I/C versions have issues I've not seen as I
> have no experience with them. The flathead vertical shaft versions of the
> I/C engines were lawn-service-monkey resistant... that's like saying
> "baggage handler resistant". They were tough.
>      That said, I have a Intek OHV Briggs on a JD-labeled riding mower that
> came to me in pieces, and between the bent pushrods and blown fuel pump I'm
> not impressed with it yet. Again, heat and service is partially to blame,
> but they also recommend tearing the shroud off them and cleaning the
> cylinder head every so often. The average homeowner won't (didn't) do that,
> and once the fins plug, the engine starts to heat and the head warps;
> usually after 5 to 7 years from what I'm reading. Once it's warped,
> combustion gases leaked into the crankcase will blow oil out on the fins
> and will also blow the fuel pump diaphram out. The engines are designed to
> have about 400-500 hour lifespans with regular service. Severe dirt/service
> and heat are the bane of any engine, and air-cooled equipment usually comes
> up short in on a 115+ degree day. I tried getting by with cleaning up
> everything but I need to spring for the $100 head assembly to fix it right,
> and I haven't pried my wallet open because it's still running (and
> leaking.) The rest of the tractor is pretty worn out and probably should be
> replaced anyway. It took over an hour of welding with my MIG to get the
> deck back together, plus all new spindles, blades, belts and pulleys.
>      Then I look at how tired my 8N with the flail mower is (my main mower),
> and think that the cylinder head isn't so expensive... maybe I can get by
> until November with what I have.
>
> Ken in AZ
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 6:54 AM, cecil bearden <crbearden at copper.net> wrote:
>
>> I had one of the later model I/C Briggs engines on a Pacer pump that I
>> used to build a fire pump trailer rig with.   I could not keep that
>> engine running,  It would act like it had a fuel problem, and i replaced
>> the carb parts, spark plug, and it was the same.  Would run like it was
>> starving for gas.   I finally changed the coil and it made no
>> difference.   I sanded down the flywheel and magnets and it ran fine.
>> Installed the old coil and it ran fine.  If there was a heavy dew, the
>> flywheel rusted and the engine was crap.
>>
>> I had a fire and lost a storage van with over $30k( at last count) worth
>> of parts in it.  I tried to get that engine running, but it was just too
>> much time to sand down the flywheel again.   I wrote Briggs & Stratton
>> later and told them just what I thought of their engine, and they
>> referred me to the servicing dealer...
>>
>> I have never bought another overhead valve Briggs engine unless it
>> wasinstalled on a piece of equip.  I have replaced several Briggs
>> engines and some Tecumseh engines with the CHONDA engines from Harbor
>> freight and have no regrets.  They start on the first or second pull and
>> run fine. I am sonsidering using the big twin cylinder on the zero turn
>> mower we have that has been down for 2 years because I have to nearly
>> dismantle the mower and engine to install new points.   I keep 2 on hand
>> in case something goes wrong with the small engines I have on my other
>> equipment.   I don't have the patience or time to screw with working on
>> one. When you get older, working time gets to be very valuable commodity.
>>
>> I used to spend a lot of time trying to save a few bucks.  Now, throw it
>> in the scrap and go on...
>>
>> Cecil in Okla
>>
>>
>> On 8/26/2016 8:30 AM, Ken Knierim wrote:
>>> Mike,
>>> In fleet service these mowers ran up to about 6 hours per day in temps up
>>> to 110 degrees and many times HUGE clouds of dust. The guy running the
>>> place had a standing order that if the oil wasn't clear it needed to be
>>> changed, and flipping them over didn't exactly drain all the oil (his
>>> schedule and money, not mine). The mowers were also washed down when we
>>> serviced them, and if the paint wasn't good they got a spritz of that
>> too.
>>> These were very low cost Briggs engines; Briggs later came out with the
>> I/C
>>> engines but the owner was too cheap (sorry, "frugal") to get them. The
>>> replacement engines usually had the serial numbers ground off them too.
>> We
>>> had to replace wheels and bearings every so often too... the ball
>> bearings
>>> would wear out and the plastic wheels had to be replaced occasionally if
>> it
>>> was someone's favorite mower deck... these were used a LOT.
>>>
>>> Before they were loaded onto trucks, all the engines had to be started
>> and
>>> ran awhile (the apartment complex next door wasn't real thrilled. up to
>> 15
>>> Briggs engines warming up at 4 AM.. then a dozen or so weedeaters...)  It
>>> was a weird place to work, but I preferred to service the equipment
>> rather
>>> than push a mower. The next place I worked at got some of the I/C engines
>>> with the magnetron ignitions. Oh, what a difference... they didn't wear
>> out
>>> in spite of a much longer service interval, and they started a lot better
>>> because Briggs actually spent another 10 cents putting bronze bushings on
>>> the carb throttle shafts (and the ignition was a LOT better). :)
>>>
>>> One other thing... when one of the cheap engines wore down enough to pull
>>> the head and start looking in it (adjust valves, etc) it was cheaper to
>>> toss and replace than spend increasing amounts of time on it. And to be
>>> honest, I don't recall EVER having one of the I/C engines apart. I
>> believe
>>> they were steel sleeved engines, ball bearings on the crank, better carbs
>>> and ignitions and so forth. And by that time, the new place I was at
>> didn't
>>> push things as hard. That was 30+ years ago though.
>>>
>>> Ken in AZ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 9:53 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can you explain further Ken? I've never heard of this type of service
>>>> interval?
>>>>
>>>> Mike M
>>>>
>>>> On 8/25/2016 4:51 PM, Ken Knierim wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Th, oil changed every 2 days, Engines would last
>>>>> 4-6 months.
>>>>> Ken in AZ
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is interesting stuff, and it's the reason I posed the question.
>>>> I'm
>>>>>> not sure if I've ever seen one of these types of carbs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SO
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:49 PM, <rlgoss at twc.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But there were actually several different designs of those carb/gas
>>>> tank
>>>>>>> combinations that looked alike but operated differently. Some had a
>>>>>>> built-in settling bowl that the built-in gas pump had to keep
>>>>>>> full-to-overflowing for the engine to run.  The fuel pump was FOREVER
>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> bad so I bought replacement diaphragms in lots of 10 so I didn't have
>>>> to
>>>>>>> make a shopping trip whenever I needed one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Larry
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---- Mogrits <mogrits at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Stephen,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In a word: simplicity.The old Briggs carbs had no floats to get
>>>>>>> saturated,
>>>>>>>> no needle and seat to stick or wear out, no tiny passages and no
>> float
>>>>>>> bowl
>>>>>>>> to collect crud to ruin the above mentioned parts. I guess they used
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> entire tank as a "bowl". I realize they are limited in that the carb
>>>>>> must
>>>>>>>> sit on top of the tank, but man, were they simple. If the motor
>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>>>> start or run correctly, you just unscrewed the gas cap and looked in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> tank. If you saw water or trash in it, two bolts had it off and
>>>>>> emptied.
>>>>>>>> Warren
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 8:17 AM, Stephen Offiler <
>> soffiler at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Warren:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Interesting.  From a purely technical standpoint, how is the old
>> B&S
>>>>>>>>> venturi carb superior?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> SO
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mogrits <mogrits at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Stephen, I have no idea, as I haven't left gas in one that long,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>> someone would mate the old Briggs and Stratton venturi carb (no
>>>>>> bowl
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> float) to the Honda OHV design with electronic ignition, they
>> would
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> the ideal small engine.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Warren
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 12:45 PM, Stephen Offiler <
>>>>>>> soffiler at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Do those Chonda engines run on 18-month old gas like the real
>>>>>>> thing?
>>>>>>>>>>> SO
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Mogrits <mogrits at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Charlie, that should indeed work as a replacement for him. I
>>>>>> put
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> those on a Murray 20" push mower body to create what I call
>>>>>>>>>>> "Frankenmower".
>>>>>>>>>>>> Starts just like a Honda, and cuts through most anything
>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>>>>> complaint,
>>>>>>>>>>>> including "monkey grass" or lariope. Some people have adaptor
>>>>>>> issues
>>>>>>>>>>> mating
>>>>>>>>>>>> them up, but the review section of the Harbor Freight page
>>>>>> gives
>>>>>>>>>>> solutions
>>>>>>>>>>>> to almost all of those.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Around here we call them "Chondas", as they appear to be
>>>>>>> knock-offs
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Honda OHV design.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Warren
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 6:47 PM, charlie hill <
>>>>>>>>>>> charliehill at embarqmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dick wouldn't this work as a replacement for the 5.5 vertical
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.harborfreight.com/55-hp-173cc-ohv-vertical-
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shaft-gas-engine-carb-69731.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Charlie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Dick Day
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2016 11:20 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Modern Gasoline
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Several years ago, I converted our 15-year old Generac
>>>>>>> generator to
>>>>>>>>>> LP.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>>>>> always did start easy (electric start) but with LP I can
>>>>>>> connect it
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 500gallon LP tank if we ever got stranded by a blizzard.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My other gas implements (push mower, 2 garden tractors, power
>>>>>>>>> washer,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tiller) don't always start as easy even though I would let
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> gas
>>>>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the fall.    My plan was to convert every gas engine we
>>>>>> had.
>>>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>> got a Troy Built sickle mower. That was next on my list to
>>>>>>> convert
>>>>>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> discovered that there are no engines I can buy to replace the
>>>>>>>>>> vertical
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5.5hp Briggs that's on there.  I don't think that converting
>>>>>>> it to
>>>>>>>>> LP
>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> necessarily hurt the engine but decided not to take a chance
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>>>>>> got
>>>>>>>>>>>>> around to the other engines. I retire next spring. Once that
>>>>>>>>> happens,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll
>>>>>>>>>>>>> get back on my LP conversion project.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Stephen Offiler <
>>>>>>>>> soffiler at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just pulled out my power washer and realized it has not
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> March 2015.  Half a tank of fuel still sloshing around.  On
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> upside, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am always careful to turn off the gas and run the carb dry.
>>>>>>> I am
>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> careful to add Sta-Bil as soon as I purchase gas.  We have
>>>>>>>>> ethanol
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gas around here like in most places in the USA.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It started on the first pull.  Literally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Engine is a 9HP Honda GX270 (I think).  I suppose there
>>>>>>> might be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> qualities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the engine (strong spark, strong fuel vaporization in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> carb,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever...) that help it run on crappy old gas.  Or
>>>>>>> something.
>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shaking my head in amazement.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SO
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