[AT] Modern Gasoline

Fri Aug 26 06:54:57 PDT 2016

I had one of the later model I/C Briggs engines on a Pacer pump that I 
used to build a fire pump trailer rig with.   I could not keep that 
engine running,  It would act like it had a fuel problem, and i replaced 
the carb parts, spark plug, and it was the same.  Would run like it was 
starving for gas.   I finally changed the coil and it made no 
difference.   I sanded down the flywheel and magnets and it ran fine.  
Installed the old coil and it ran fine.  If there was a heavy dew, the 
flywheel rusted and the engine was crap.

I had a fire and lost a storage van with over $30k( at last count) worth 
of parts in it.  I tried to get that engine running, but it was just too 
much time to sand down the flywheel again.   I wrote Briggs & Stratton 
later and told them just what I thought of their engine, and they 
referred me to the servicing dealer...

I have never bought another overhead valve Briggs engine unless it 
wasinstalled on a piece of equip.  I have replaced several Briggs 
engines and some Tecumseh engines with the CHONDA engines from Harbor 
freight and have no regrets.  They start on the first or second pull and 
run fine. I am sonsidering using the big twin cylinder on the zero turn 
mower we have that has been down for 2 years because I have to nearly 
dismantle the mower and engine to install new points.   I keep 2 on hand 
in case something goes wrong with the small engines I have on my other 
equipment.   I don't have the patience or time to screw with working on 
one. When you get older, working time gets to be very valuable commodity.

I used to spend a lot of time trying to save a few bucks.  Now, throw it 
in the scrap and go on...

Cecil in Okla

On 8/26/2016 8:30 AM, Ken Knierim wrote:
> Mike,
> In fleet service these mowers ran up to about 6 hours per day in temps up
> to 110 degrees and many times HUGE clouds of dust. The guy running the
> place had a standing order that if the oil wasn't clear it needed to be
> changed, and flipping them over didn't exactly drain all the oil (his
> schedule and money, not mine). The mowers were also washed down when we
> serviced them, and if the paint wasn't good they got a spritz of that too.
> These were very low cost Briggs engines; Briggs later came out with the I/C
> engines but the owner was too cheap (sorry, "frugal") to get them. The
> replacement engines usually had the serial numbers ground off them too. We
> had to replace wheels and bearings every so often too... the ball bearings
> would wear out and the plastic wheels had to be replaced occasionally if it
> was someone's favorite mower deck... these were used a LOT.
>
> Before they were loaded onto trucks, all the engines had to be started and
> ran awhile (the apartment complex next door wasn't real thrilled. up to 15
> Briggs engines warming up at 4 AM.. then a dozen or so weedeaters...)  It
> was a weird place to work, but I preferred to service the equipment rather
> than push a mower. The next place I worked at got some of the I/C engines
> with the magnetron ignitions. Oh, what a difference... they didn't wear out
> in spite of a much longer service interval, and they started a lot better
> because Briggs actually spent another 10 cents putting bronze bushings on
> the carb throttle shafts (and the ignition was a LOT better). :)
>
> One other thing... when one of the cheap engines wore down enough to pull
> the head and start looking in it (adjust valves, etc) it was cheaper to
> toss and replace than spend increasing amounts of time on it. And to be
> honest, I don't recall EVER having one of the I/C engines apart. I believe
> they were steel sleeved engines, ball bearings on the crank, better carbs
> and ignitions and so forth. And by that time, the new place I was at didn't
> push things as hard. That was 30+ years ago though.
>
> Ken in AZ
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 9:53 PM, Mike M <meulenms at gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> Can you explain further Ken? I've never heard of this type of service
>> interval?
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>> On 8/25/2016 4:51 PM, Ken Knierim wrote:
>>
>>> Th, oil changed every 2 days, Engines would last
>>> 4-6 months.
>>> Ken in AZ
>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is interesting stuff, and it's the reason I posed the question.
>> I'm
>>>> not sure if I've ever seen one of these types of carbs.
>>>>
>>>> SO
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 12:49 PM, <rlgoss at twc.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But there were actually several different designs of those carb/gas
>> tank
>>>>> combinations that looked alike but operated differently. Some had a
>>>>> built-in settling bowl that the built-in gas pump had to keep
>>>>> full-to-overflowing for the engine to run.  The fuel pump was FOREVER
>>>> going
>>>>> bad so I bought replacement diaphragms in lots of 10 so I didn't have
>> to
>>>>> make a shopping trip whenever I needed one.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Larry
>>>>>
>>>>> ---- Mogrits <mogrits at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Stephen,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In a word: simplicity.The old Briggs carbs had no floats to get
>>>>> saturated,
>>>>>> no needle and seat to stick or wear out, no tiny passages and no float
>>>>> bowl
>>>>>> to collect crud to ruin the above mentioned parts. I guess they used
>>>> the
>>>>>> entire tank as a "bowl". I realize they are limited in that the carb
>>>> must
>>>>>> sit on top of the tank, but man, were they simple. If the motor
>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>> start or run correctly, you just unscrewed the gas cap and looked in
>>>> the
>>>>>> tank. If you saw water or trash in it, two bolts had it off and
>>>> emptied.
>>>>>> Warren
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 8:17 AM, Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Warren:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Interesting.  From a purely technical standpoint, how is the old B&S
>>>>>>> venturi carb superior?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SO
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 7:50 AM, Mogrits <mogrits at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Stephen, I have no idea, as I haven't left gas in one that long,
>>>> but
>>>>> if
>>>>>>>> someone would mate the old Briggs and Stratton venturi carb (no
>>>> bowl
>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> float) to the Honda OHV design with electronic ignition, they would
>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> the ideal small engine.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Warren
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 12:45 PM, Stephen Offiler <
>>>>> soffiler at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do those Chonda engines run on 18-month old gas like the real
>>>>> thing?
>>>>>>>>> SO
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Mogrits <mogrits at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Charlie, that should indeed work as a replacement for him. I
>>>> put
>>>>> one
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> those on a Murray 20" push mower body to create what I call
>>>>>>>>> "Frankenmower".
>>>>>>>>>> Starts just like a Honda, and cuts through most anything
>>>> without
>>>>>>>>> complaint,
>>>>>>>>>> including "monkey grass" or lariope. Some people have adaptor
>>>>> issues
>>>>>>>>> mating
>>>>>>>>>> them up, but the review section of the Harbor Freight page
>>>> gives
>>>>>>>>> solutions
>>>>>>>>>> to almost all of those.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Around here we call them "Chondas", as they appear to be
>>>>> knock-offs
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Honda OHV design.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Warren
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 6:47 PM, charlie hill <
>>>>>>>>> charliehill at embarqmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Dick wouldn't this work as a replacement for the 5.5 vertical
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.harborfreight.com/55-hp-173cc-ohv-vertical-
>>>>>>>>>>> shaft-gas-engine-carb-69731.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Charlie
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Dick Day
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2016 11:20 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Modern Gasoline
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Several years ago, I converted our 15-year old Generac
>>>>> generator to
>>>>>>>> LP.
>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>>> always did start easy (electric start) but with LP I can
>>>>> connect it
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>> 500gallon LP tank if we ever got stranded by a blizzard.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My other gas implements (push mower, 2 garden tractors, power
>>>>>>> washer,
>>>>>>>>>>> tiller) don't always start as easy even though I would let
>>>> the
>>>>> gas
>>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>> in the fall.    My plan was to convert every gas engine we
>>>> had.
>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>> got a Troy Built sickle mower. That was next on my list to
>>>>> convert
>>>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> discovered that there are no engines I can buy to replace the
>>>>>>>> vertical
>>>>>>>>>>> 5.5hp Briggs that's on there.  I don't think that converting
>>>>> it to
>>>>>>> LP
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> necessarily hurt the engine but decided not to take a chance
>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>>>>> got
>>>>>>>>>>> around to the other engines. I retire next spring. Once that
>>>>>>> happens,
>>>>>>>>>> I'll
>>>>>>>>>>> get back on my LP conversion project.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Stephen Offiler <
>>>>>>> soffiler at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I just pulled out my power washer and realized it has not
>>>>> been
>>>>>>> run
>>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>>>>> March 2015.  Half a tank of fuel still sloshing around.  On
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> upside, I
>>>>>>>>>>>> am always careful to turn off the gas and run the carb dry.
>>>>> I am
>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>> careful to add Sta-Bil as soon as I purchase gas.  We have
>>>>>>> ethanol
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>> gas around here like in most places in the USA.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It started on the first pull.  Literally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Engine is a 9HP Honda GX270 (I think).  I suppose there
>>>>> might be
>>>>>>>>>>> qualities
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the engine (strong spark, strong fuel vaporization in
>>>> the
>>>>>>> carb,
>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever...) that help it run on crappy old gas.  Or
>>>>> something.
>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>>>>>> shaking my head in amazement.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> SO
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