[AT] Getting water out of a gearbox/now bearing life
Cecil R Bearden
crbearden at copper.net
Fri Jun 5 05:01:20 PDT 2015
The engineers probably proposed it but the bean counters could not
afford to pay the CEO's golden parachute and build that feature in, so
they did what was most important. Nearly everything we have discussed
as being wrong with the newer equipment is due to the greed of the
management of the manufacturer. I get a lot of flak about my Belarus
tractors but they serve me very well. I only wish I had a 100 hp one to
pull my Swather with.
Cecil in OKla
On 6/5/2015 6:30 AM, charlie hill wrote:
> You know, it just occurred to me regarding what I wrote below,
> That hub assembly already has a zero speed sensor built into
> it. Surely it would not have been too hard for GM's engineers to
> put a high temperature alarm in there two. I guess it would have
> cost them a dollar or two. With the price of a new truck comparable
> to my '06 now being in excess of $50,000 you would think they could
> afford to throw it in though. Then again maybe the 2015's have that
> feature?
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: charlie hill
> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2015 6:28 AM
> To: rlgoss at twc.com
> Subject: Re: [AT] Getting water out of a gearbox/now bearing life
>
> Larry, I don't see periodic replacement as a solution.
> Since you dealing with statistical failure rates isn't it
> possible that replacing the old "codger" with a new one
> might result in replacing a good old codger with a defective
> new codger? I think in a situation where bearing failure is
> critical such as where the failure would shut down a continuous
> batch polymer system or a manufacturing line my approach would be
> to monitor bearing temperature and look for trends in increasing
> temps or temperature spikes. Kind of like monitoring us old codger's
> blood pressure.
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rlgoss at twc.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2015 9:17 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Cc: charlie hill
> Subject: Re: [AT] Getting water out of a gearbox
>
> This thread brought some of my educational history to mind, and I had to do
> some searching to see if L10 is still the standard used for calculating
> bearing life. It turns out that it is. When I was first exposed to the
> process back in 1956, it was one of the most disappointing and confusing
> things I had come across. It's completely statistical in nature and gives
> no clear guidelines or "rule of thumb" material that can be followed for
> bearing life. Since all the numbers are based on a statistical time for 90%
> failure rate under specific conditions, the only way you can hope to sleep
> well at night is to adopt a schedule for component replacement that puts new
> hardware in place before the old (or original) item fails. They don't give
> us codgers awards based on our having defied the odds to make a particular
> piece of hardware last beyond its expected longevity.
>
>
> Larry
> ---- charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com> wrote:
>> It's not a wheel bearing, it's an entire hub assembly complete with new
>> lug
>> studs
>> and a new zero speed sensor and wiring harness for the anti-lock brakes.
>> I don't like paying that much and there are cheaper ones out there but
>> I don't want off brand bearings on my wheels.
>>
>> Actually my experience with 90 vintage trucks is worse than new ones
>> because there were some bugs in the electronics that have now been
>> worked out. If I wanted to go old school (and I would not mind doing so
>> to
>> be honest) it would be early 80's and back, carbureted.
>>
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: toma at risingnet.net
>> Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2015 5:39 PM
>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>> Subject: Re: [AT] Getting water out of a gearbox
>>
>>
>> One more in a very long list of reasons not to buy a truck newer than '95.
>> --
>> Sent from myMail app for Android Thursday, 04 June 2015, 02:00PM -0700
>> from
>> Thomas Mehrkam < tmehrkam at sbcglobal.net> :
>>
>>> To my mind $180 is a lot of money for a wheel bearing. Multiply that
>>> by
>>> two and there is twice the reason to replace them before they show signs
>>> of
>>> failing.
>>> Still burns me that you cannot pack them. I am not the only one. There
>>> is
>>> a after market hub with serviceable bearings made for the Ford Super
>>> Duty.
>>> Some 4x4 nuts found that the bearings might last 30k when large tires
>>> and
>>> wheels are installed.
>>>
>>> Only $1,500 per wheel! Getting what should have been on the truck to
>>> begin
>>> with.
>>>
>>> 99-08 Ford SpynTec Parts | Spyntec Industries
>>>
>>> | |
>>> | | | | | |
>>> | 99-08 Ford SpynTec Parts | Spyntec IndustriesClick here for a parts
>>> breakdown and quantities. |
>>> | |
>>> | View on spyntec.com | Preview by Yahoo |
>>> | |
>>> | |
>>>
>>> On Thursday, June 4, 2015 3:42 PM, Doug Tallman <
>>> dtallman at accnorwalk.com > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I figured you were going by rotations The sad part is you will be lucky
>>> to get half that mileage out of the replacements. Factory ones cost
>>> about double that. Still not expensive by any means. One on my truck
>>> didn't make any noise or give any warning. it just decided to lock up.
>>> Doug T
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/4/2015 6:01 AM, charlie hill wrote:
>>>> Thinking back on it, my original intent was to figure out
>>>> how many times that bearing had rotated and then I decided to
>>>> convert it to cost. Obviously if I had just wanted to know how much
>>>> per mile it would have been a much simpler problem.
>>>>
>>>> Charlie
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: charlie hill
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 9:45 PM
>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Getting water out of a gearbox
>>>>
>>>> Ah yes, I see your point now. I was working in rotations rather than
>>>> miles.
>>>> That is the history of my mathematics. I always understood the concept
>>>> but
>>>> made stupid simple mistakes. Still not a bad deal.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the correction.
>>>>
>>>> Charlie
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Doug Tallman
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 7:36 PM
>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Getting water out of a gearbox
>>>>
>>>> Charlie, my basic math comes out to .00112 dollars per mile. Not as
>>>> much
>>>> of a deal you thought it was. :-) Doug T
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/3/2015 6:31 PM, charlie hill wrote:
>>>>> hmmm after doing a little basic math it occurs to me that in 250,000
>>>>> miles
>>>>> that
>>>>> bearing has turned on the order of 150 million revolutions. At
>>>>> $280.00
>>>>> that
>>>>> works out
>>>>> to a bit less than $.000002 per mile. I don't think it owes me
>>>>> anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> Charlie
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: charlie hill
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 3:41 PM
>>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Getting water out of a gearbox
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep the sealed bearings are a bit of a mixed blessing. No maintenance
>>>>> necessary but
>>>>> NO maintenance allowed either.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do the same thing. I recently replaced the belts on my truck. They
>>>>> weren't broken or completely
>>>>> worn out but were showing signs of wear and they were old. Did I
>>>>> throw
>>>>> them
>>>>> away...NO. They went
>>>>> behind the back seat!
>>>>>
>>>>> Charlie
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Thomas Mehrkam
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 2:21 PM
>>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Getting water out of a gearbox
>>>>>
>>>>> One of my gripes is putting sealed bearings in the front hubs. Mine
>>>>> have
>>>>> 280,000 miles on them. Seem fine when I check them but I am sure they
>>>>> are
>>>>> running on borrowed time.
>>>>> If they were the type I could pack with grease I could check and
>>>>> repack
>>>>> then. I would likely have a spare set of packed bearings in a zip
>>>>> lock
>>>>> in
>>>>> my tool box. Just in case.
>>>>> I have a pair of prepacked bearings with every trailer I own. And
>>>>> extra
>>>>> fan
>>>>> belts in all my vehicles. Cost's nothing the fan belts are old good
>>>>> ones
>>>>> taken off to put on fresh ones.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been saved more than once by these old spare parts.
>>>>> One Christmas holiday my daughter and I were driving the 2500 Suburban
>>>>> from
>>>>> Houston to South Padre. My wife and InLaws were at a Condo for the
>>>>> holidays. I had to work and left early in the next morning
>>>>> About Warton. 1.5 Hours I lost power steering, Power Brakes and
>>>>> alternator.
>>>>> I stopped and the belt was shredded. It seems the power steering pump
>>>>> bracket broke.
>>>>> I put on the spare belt. It would not stay on because of the bracket.
>>>>> I
>>>>> spotted a coil of barbed ware hanging on the fence next to me. Thank
>>>>> goodness for ranchers that believe on keeping old wire hanging hanging
>>>>> around for emergency fence repairs. I borrowed a short length and
>>>>> wired
>>>>> to
>>>>> pump bracket so the belt would stay on.
>>>>> I went into town and found small welding shop and asked them if they
>>>>> could
>>>>> weld it. They claimed it would not hold. The bracket was too hard.
>>>>> They
>>>>> said there was a Chevy dealer in town.
>>>>> The dealer did not have a bracket but they ran a truck to Houston
>>>>> about
>>>>> 10:30 AM every day for parts. It was about that time. He said he
>>>>> would
>>>>> order the part and have it by 3:30.
>>>>> One time the dealer did good. Got the part and got us out by 5:00 Pm.
>>>>> The
>>>>> service manager even loaned us his car so we could go to lunch.
>>>>> Made it to south padre after dark. It was late but we were able to
>>>>> salvage
>>>>> the holiday. Come to think of it all dealerships are not ripoff
>>>>> artists.
>>>>> I
>>>>> was not even disappointed with the price. This was 1996 or so.
>>>>> From: charlie hill < charliehill at embarqmail.com >
>>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group <
>>>>> at at lists.antique-tractor.com >
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2015 10:17 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Getting water out of a gearbox
>>>>>
>>>>> I had an interesting experience this past Friday. It could have been
>>>>> bad and very expensive but it turned out well. I guess that penny I
>>>>> found
>>>>> heads up in the yard Friday morning was a good omen.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was headed to Maryland. On I-95 just south of the I-295 exit I
>>>>> started
>>>>> getting
>>>>> a bad front end vibration. I took an exit hoping to find nothing
>>>>> worse
>>>>> than
>>>>> a flat
>>>>> tire. Not so. I couldn't find a thing that looked out of place but I
>>>>> knew
>>>>> that the
>>>>> right front hub (4 WD 2006 GMC) was running on borrowed time. The
>>>>> left
>>>>> side
>>>>> was changed out about 3 years ago and the right side had over 250,000
>>>>> miles
>>>>> on it.
>>>>> I grabbed the top of the tire and snatched on it. Sure enough I felt
>>>>> about
>>>>> 1/8" or so of
>>>>> slack. There was nothing to do buy keep going. No where really to
>>>>> get
>>>>> it
>>>>> worked on.
>>>>> This was at about 3pm on Friday afternoon. I made it nearly to
>>>>> Fredericksburg Va. when
>>>>> I ran into a traffic delay for about 3 miles of stop and go. Every
>>>>> time
>>>>> I
>>>>> started I had to
>>>>> apply too much throttle and I didn't need to touch the brake pedal to
>>>>> stop!
>>>>>
>>>>> I limped to the next exit, still tied up in traffic, and got off.
>>>>> After
>>>>> pulling into a parking lot
>>>>> I searched on my phone for the nearest AutoZone. Not that I'm
>>>>> particularly
>>>>> fond of AutoZone
>>>>> but I knew a few things. There's one most everywhere, they loan tools
>>>>> and
>>>>> I
>>>>> happened to know
>>>>> that they carry that hub in the Timken brand. Sure enough there was
>>>>> an
>>>>> AutoZone store less than
>>>>> a mile from me. I found it, went in and explained my situation. They
>>>>> had
>>>>> the hub (1 in stock) and
>>>>> they had the tools and it was ok to work in their parking lot but they
>>>>> didn't have jacks or jack stands
>>>>> to loan out so I knew I'd have to buy what I needed. I asked if there
>>>>> was
>>>>> a
>>>>> local shop that could
>>>>> do it now, do it right and not rip me off. The commercial accounts
>>>>> guy
>>>>> picked up the phone and
>>>>> made a call. I heard him say Amigo, '06 Z 71 Quattro Quattro front
>>>>> hub
>>>>> NOW? The parts man
>>>>> said he can do it now. I said how much. He asked. The answer came
>>>>> back
>>>>> $100.00.
>>>>> Mind you this was at 4:15 pm on Friday. I told him yes.
>>>>>
>>>>> I bought the hub for $180.00 and they had their parts runner girl
>>>>> escort
>>>>> me
>>>>> to the shop.
>>>>> When we got there Jorge was waiting in his one bay shop in a single
>>>>> slope
>>>>> metal building
>>>>> that housed a detail shop and other similar small businesses, each
>>>>> taking
>>>>> up
>>>>> a bay or two.
>>>>> Jorge is about 50 I'm guessing. He spoke English well enough for me
>>>>> to
>>>>> talk
>>>>> to him. He apologetically
>>>>> asked if I could wait 5 minutes for him to start to let it cool. He
>>>>> offered
>>>>> us bottled water which
>>>>> we declined because we had our own. Just a few minutes later he went
>>>>> to
>>>>> work. He was fast and
>>>>> clearly knew what he was doing. I watched him work from a distance. I
>>>>> didn't want to make him
>>>>> nervous or make him think I didn't trust him but I wanted to make sure
>>>>> he
>>>>> was doing it right. He did.
>>>>> He did all the little things that some mechanics wouldn't bother with
>>>>> like
>>>>> making sure he straightened
>>>>> the slight bends he put in the dust cap that covers the axle nut when
>>>>> he
>>>>> had
>>>>> to pry it off and putting a
>>>>> bit of anti seize grease on the new lug studs.
>>>>>
>>>>> In about 45 minutes he was finished. I gave him the promised $100.00
>>>>> and
>>>>> thanked him. He gave me his
>>>>> business card just in case something wasn't right and I needed to
>>>>> call.
>>>>> (He
>>>>> knew I was passing through
>>>>> and wouldn't be back otherwise). I thanked him again and was gone.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just wish Jorge was in my town because I'd gladly use his services.
>>>>> I
>>>>> could have changed the hub myself and
>>>>> would have if I had been at home but not for $100 bucks. With my bad
>>>>> knees
>>>>> it was worth every cent of
>>>>> 100 bucks to have him do it and do it right.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes this is my tractor hauling truck (obligatory tractor reference).
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are ever in Fredericksburg VA and need a good mechanic find the
>>>>> AutoZone near the 17 Business exit (first US 17
>>>>> exit going north) and ask them to tell you how to find Jorge Auto
>>>>> Service.
>>>>>
>>>>> Charlie
>>>>>
>>>>> C
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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