[AT] Spam> Re: now Heart concerns

[Dan Glass]

I am glad we don't treat tractors like some doctors treat their 
patients.  If we did and  the engine developed a miss we would probably 
change the brake pads.
On 2/23/2015 10:46 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
> I can at least partially agree with you, David.  I have actually heard
> sincere proposals (that thankfully didn't go anywhere.... yet....) to add
> statins the public water supply!
>
> But I tend to disagree that statins have their place.  I've done a ton of
> research on this.  If you split people into four camps - men vs women, and
> those with vs without pre-existing cardiac disease, you find that three of
> the camps have ZERO benefit from statins in "all-cause mortality".  That
> means death from any and all reasons, not just cardiovascular.  Statin
> promoters will talk all day long about avoiding death from cardiac
> conditions, but the real data says people on statins are dying equally as
> fast, just from something else.
>
> Then we have the fourth camp, which is men with pre-existing cardiac
> disease.  Here, the statistics for all-cause mortality are 2 deaths in 100
> over 5 years for the statin group and 3 deaths in 100 over 5 years for the
> control group not taking statins.  Statin promoters call this a 50%
> reduction in mortality.  Bald-faced marketing lie.  The difference between
> 2% and 3% is ONE PERCENT, not 50%.  (You have to take a percentage change
> of a percentage change to come up with 50% which is mathematically
> nonsense).  And all the pro-statin marketing bullcrap is based on this camp
> alone.  The other three camps:  men without pre-existing cardiac disease,
> and all women regardless of cardiac status, have ZERO benefit.
>
> One could, I suppose, use the above to conclude that statins do have their
> place.  But all 100 of the group on statins are suffering 5 years worth of
> side-effects to save one life.  That is a terribly thin arguement in favor
> of statins. The right answer for everyone is to get off the statins and
> instead drop the sugar and processed carbs (bread, pasta, baked goods,
> anything wheat-based or corn-based) that are now the proven cause of
> cardiac disease.
>
> SO
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 9:49 AM, David Bruce <davidbruce at yadtel.net> wrote:
>
>> My earlier comments not withstanding I do think statins have their
>> place. My concern is some want all adults to take statins regardless.
>> That I think is so wrong. If the whole population has a medical
>> conditions then just maybe the "experts" have a misguided view.
>>
>> David
>> NW NC
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/23/2015 8:32 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>> Dan, I stand corrected.   I tend to agree with you.  Now, if I may, I'd
>>> like to revise my opening statement to read "Doctors exist to treat
>> broken
>>> people indefinitely..." and the rest of my comments still work.
>>>
>>> SO
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 10:31 AM, Dan Glass <dglass at numail.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am not sure I agree with that.  I have always heard doctors are there
>>>> to treat you, not to cure you.  And that mostly seems to be the case.  I
>>>> know most medical researchers are looking for treatments instead of
>>>> cures.  I was told that if someone found a cure for the common cold it
>>>> would destroy a multi billion dollar business.  Next time you go to
>>>> Walmart see how many cold treatments they have versus cures.
>>>> On 2/22/2015 9:30 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>>> Doctors exist to fix broken people.  Until you are broken, they sit
>> back
>>>>> and watch you break yourself with bad choices such as smoking,
>> drinking,
>>>>> bad diet, insufficient fresh air and sunlight and exercise.  Doctors
>> get
>>>>> close to zero nutrition training in school.  They are not oriented
>>>> towards
>>>>> coaching you to do the right things to preserve health while you've got
>>>> it;
>>>>> they fix problems once they arise.  Their actions are largely
>> controlled
>>>> by
>>>>> the insurance companies.  Doctors live in mortal fear of malpractice
>>>> suits
>>>>> and everything they do is intended to make sure they appease the
>>>> insurance
>>>>> companies so they don't lose their malpractice coverage.  And the rest
>> of
>>>>> what they do is dictated by those other insurance companies, health
>>>>> insurance.  Doctors do what they will be reimbursed for.
>>>>>
>>>>> SO
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> AT mailing list
>>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> AT mailing list
>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AT mailing list
>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>
> _______________________________________________
> AT mailing list
> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at