[Farmall] [Bulk] Re: H water pump pulley

Fri Feb 27 16:37:24 PST 2015

They do not spring back but sometimes you can open them back up and 
reuse them.  You have to drive something in the grove.  Not always possible

On 2/27/2015 5:33 PM, Charlie V wrote:
> I had a Ford PU with the same problem, John.  After a couple of years I got
> tired of pushing it back in every few days, so I put a hose clamp around
> the shaft so it covered both ends of the pin and tightened the clamp down.
> Looked strange, but the pin never worked back out.
>
> Going back to reuse of a groove pin, at least the few I looked at on the
> net, were cold rolled steel material.  As such, even if heat treated, which
> it did not say, they would be at best only case hardened and would be
> basically dead as far as spring back upon release.  To me that suggests a
> one time use only.
>
> Charlie V.
>
> On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 9:02 AM, John Gustafson <gustafsonjohnc at wildblue.net
>> wrote:
>> In response to Jim Beckers musings abot groove pins vs roll pins. Roll pins
>> do work well in a more or less static environment. Put a lot of vibration
>> across the joint and they will walk out  of the hole. Does not have to be
>> high frequency either. Ran into this back in the day when I was gainfullly
>> employed as a mechanical engineer. The groove pins were a good deal more
>> stable in that environment. On a personal note, at one time I had a Ford
>> pickup wit a 3 speed column shift. The shift lever was attached with a roll
>> pin that constantly kept working out. The roll pin just does not deal with
>> a
>> dymanic environment very well long term.  The solid groove pin generally
>> worked much better.
>>
>> John G
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jim Becker" <mr.jebecker at gmail.com>
>> To: "Farmall/IHC mailing list" <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 5:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
>>
>>
>>> I never HAD TO.  I did have one crank pin that was loose enough to fall
>> out
>>> by itself.
>>>
>>> I suspect these don't require the precision of hole size that a smooth
>> pin
>>> would require.  They probably predate roll pins.  If roll pins had
>> already
>>> been around, groove pins would have probably never ben invented.
>>>
>>> Jim Becker
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: jtchall at nc.rr.com
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 8:30 AM
>>> To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
>>>
>>> I can honestly say I've never had to get a pin out of a starting crank. I
>>> just assumed they were standard dowels. Learned something new today!
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Jim Becker
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 8:58 AM
>>> To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
>>>
>>> I haven't even seen the inside of an H water pump since some time in the
>>> early 60s, so this may not apply at all.
>>>
>>> Some pins of this sort are short enough so they can be driven deeper into
>>> the hole and will fit entirely inside the inner part.  After disassembly,
>>> they can be knocked out with a punch.  The outer part is only drilled on
>>> one
>>> side so the hole is effectively blind when it is assembled.
>>>
>>> By the way, at least some starting cranks have a pin that is grooved in
>>> the
>>> center.
>>>
>>> Jim Becker
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: szabelsk at gdls.com
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 7:34 AM
>>> To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
>>>
>>> The hole should be slightly larger than the pin (not tapered as you might
>>> think). The pin has actually been spread just a little on one end when
>>> they press the groove into it. The groove is not full length. This allow
>>> the pin to easily slide into the hole until it meets the area when the
>> pin
>>> starts to widen. This also helps when you're trying to line up two holes
>>> before setting the pin. The pin is then driven in flush hydraulically or
>>> by hammering. So only the grooved end of the pin in really under
>>> compression, the rest of the pin is not under any compression. If the
>> hole
>>> is a thru hole you should be able to drive the pin back out. You should
>>> also be able to reuse the pin providing that the first installation
>> didn't
>>> reduce the expanded area and affect how well it fits into the hole. For
>> my
>>> two cents I would just get a new one and not take a chance that it won't
>>> fit as tight as it should, especially if you don't know how many times
>>> it's been removed and reinstalled.
>>>
>>> We have the same condition here with lock washers. Not knowing how many
>>> times a lockwasher has been compressed and uncompressed during use, or
>> how
>>> long it's been under compression, we always replace lockwashers when we
>>> unbolt anything, no matter how "sprung" the washer looks.
>>>
>>> As far as the one used with the H water pump, I don't know if the hole is
>>> actually blind or not. If it isn't, I don't know how you would be able to
>>> get anything in there to drive the pin back out (maybe a micro hydraulic
>>> pump made by elves). If it is blind, you might be able to use an easy-out
>>> like you would for a broken bolt. Twisting and pulling at the same time
>>> may get it out. If not just keep drilling with small increases in drill
>>> size until you relieve the compression. I would guess that this would be
>>> somewhere about half way through the groove.
>>>
>>>
>>> Carl Szabelski
>>>
>>> The Borg Are Wrong, Resistance Is Not Futile ..... It's Voltage / Current
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From:   <jtchall at nc.rr.com>
>>> To:     "Farmall/IHC mailing list" <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>,
>>> Date:   02/25/2015 06:28 PM
>>> Subject:        Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
>>> Sent by:        farmall-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> OK, just looked them up on McMaster and see how they work. Looks like
>> they
>>> may work in a drilled hole, depending on how accurate it is, a reamed
>> hole
>>> should be better. Are these reusable or once you compress it does it fail
>>> to
>>> open back up enough to use again?
>>>
>>> John Hall
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: szabelsk at gdls.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 6:52 AM
>>> To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
>>>
>>> It's called a Grooved Pin. The one that Farmall used on the pump for the
>> H
>>> is 1/8 inch diameter by 1 inch long, Type A.  The part number is 142488.
>>> The concept in that the pin is slightly smaller than the hole it goes
>>> into, however the pin has been slightly enlarged at the grooved end. The
>>> groove allows the pin to be squeezed a little so that it fits snugly into
>>> the hole and stays in place. They're supposed to be great for vibration.
>>>
>>> You can find info on them by doing a search on the internet using
>> "GROOVED
>>> PIN".
>>>
>>>
>>> Carl Szabelski
>>>
>>>
>>> The Borg Are Wrong, Resistance Is Not Futile ..... It's Voltage / Current
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From:   <jtchall at nc.rr.com>
>>> To:     "Farmall/IHC mailing list" <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>,
>>> Date:   02/24/2015 06:33 PM
>>> Subject:        Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
>>> Sent by:        farmall-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Wow, wish I could see this thing. I can't recall ever seeing a pin of
>> this
>>> type, anybody know the proper name for this type of pin? I'd love to
>>> figure
>>> out what it is and look it up in my machinist handbook.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the help guys.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: David Steinich
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2015 8:41 AM
>>> To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
>>>
>>> If they've got the pulley assembly off the pump, they can remove the
>>> bearings, clean it up well, and drive that pin into the center hole of
>> the
>>> hub. Then the real fun begins  - the pulley and hub have probably been
>>> together over 50 years and might not want to be separated...
>>> On Feb 23, 2015 8:58 PM, <jtchall at nc.rr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You mean a roll pin? According to what the guy told my dad, the hole
>>>> doesn't
>>>> go through, its blind. I'd love to have seen it.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Barney Van De Weert
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 9:26 PM
>>>> To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
>>>>
>>>> I vaguely remember IH using a pin that had a slot on the side to hold
>>>> stuff
>>>> together back then-   Barney Van De Weert
>>>>        From: "jtchall at nc.rr.com" <jtchall at nc.rr.com>
>>>> To: farmall <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 7:37 PM
>>>> Subject: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
>>>>
>>>> Dad got a call today wanting to now how to get the back half of the
>>> pulley
>>>> off of an H water pump, guy said it had some sort of pin in it that
>>> didn?t
>>>> appear to go through. Dad doesn?t remember and I?ve never worked on one.
>>>> My
>>>> only thought was it?s a taper pin, but I?ve never seen those used
>>> anywhere
>>>> other than the gearbox on a lathe. Anybody know how it comes apart?
>>>>
>>>> John Hall
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