[Farmall] H water pump pulley

Charlie V 1cdevill at gmail.com
Fri Feb 27 15:33:15 PST 2015


I had a Ford PU with the same problem, John.  After a couple of years I got
tired of pushing it back in every few days, so I put a hose clamp around
the shaft so it covered both ends of the pin and tightened the clamp down.
Looked strange, but the pin never worked back out.

Going back to reuse of a groove pin, at least the few I looked at on the
net, were cold rolled steel material.  As such, even if heat treated, which
it did not say, they would be at best only case hardened and would be
basically dead as far as spring back upon release.  To me that suggests a
one time use only.

Charlie V.

On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 9:02 AM, John Gustafson <gustafsonjohnc at wildblue.net
> wrote:

> In response to Jim Beckers musings abot groove pins vs roll pins. Roll pins
> do work well in a more or less static environment. Put a lot of vibration
> across the joint and they will walk out  of the hole. Does not have to be
> high frequency either. Ran into this back in the day when I was gainfullly
> employed as a mechanical engineer. The groove pins were a good deal more
> stable in that environment. On a personal note, at one time I had a Ford
> pickup wit a 3 speed column shift. The shift lever was attached with a roll
> pin that constantly kept working out. The roll pin just does not deal with
> a
> dymanic environment very well long term.  The solid groove pin generally
> worked much better.
>
> John G
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Becker" <mr.jebecker at gmail.com>
> To: "Farmall/IHC mailing list" <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 5:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
>
>
> >I never HAD TO.  I did have one crank pin that was loose enough to fall
> out
> > by itself.
> >
> > I suspect these don't require the precision of hole size that a smooth
> pin
> > would require.  They probably predate roll pins.  If roll pins had
> already
> > been around, groove pins would have probably never ben invented.
> >
> > Jim Becker
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jtchall at nc.rr.com
> > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 8:30 AM
> > To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
> >
> > I can honestly say I've never had to get a pin out of a starting crank. I
> > just assumed they were standard dowels. Learned something new today!
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim Becker
> > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 8:58 AM
> > To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
> >
> > I haven't even seen the inside of an H water pump since some time in the
> > early 60s, so this may not apply at all.
> >
> > Some pins of this sort are short enough so they can be driven deeper into
> > the hole and will fit entirely inside the inner part.  After disassembly,
> > they can be knocked out with a punch.  The outer part is only drilled on
> > one
> > side so the hole is effectively blind when it is assembled.
> >
> > By the way, at least some starting cranks have a pin that is grooved in
> > the
> > center.
> >
> > Jim Becker
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: szabelsk at gdls.com
> > Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 7:34 AM
> > To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
> >
> > The hole should be slightly larger than the pin (not tapered as you might
> > think). The pin has actually been spread just a little on one end when
> > they press the groove into it. The groove is not full length. This allow
> > the pin to easily slide into the hole until it meets the area when the
> pin
> > starts to widen. This also helps when you're trying to line up two holes
> > before setting the pin. The pin is then driven in flush hydraulically or
> > by hammering. So only the grooved end of the pin in really under
> > compression, the rest of the pin is not under any compression. If the
> hole
> > is a thru hole you should be able to drive the pin back out. You should
> > also be able to reuse the pin providing that the first installation
> didn't
> > reduce the expanded area and affect how well it fits into the hole. For
> my
> > two cents I would just get a new one and not take a chance that it won't
> > fit as tight as it should, especially if you don't know how many times
> > it's been removed and reinstalled.
> >
> > We have the same condition here with lock washers. Not knowing how many
> > times a lockwasher has been compressed and uncompressed during use, or
> how
> > long it's been under compression, we always replace lockwashers when we
> > unbolt anything, no matter how "sprung" the washer looks.
> >
> > As far as the one used with the H water pump, I don't know if the hole is
> > actually blind or not. If it isn't, I don't know how you would be able to
> > get anything in there to drive the pin back out (maybe a micro hydraulic
> > pump made by elves). If it is blind, you might be able to use an easy-out
> > like you would for a broken bolt. Twisting and pulling at the same time
> > may get it out. If not just keep drilling with small increases in drill
> > size until you relieve the compression. I would guess that this would be
> > somewhere about half way through the groove.
> >
> >
> > Carl Szabelski
> >
> > The Borg Are Wrong, Resistance Is Not Futile ..... It's Voltage / Current
> >
> >
> >
> > From:   <jtchall at nc.rr.com>
> > To:     "Farmall/IHC mailing list" <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>,
> > Date:   02/25/2015 06:28 PM
> > Subject:        Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
> > Sent by:        farmall-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> >
> >
> >
> > OK, just looked them up on McMaster and see how they work. Looks like
> they
> >
> > may work in a drilled hole, depending on how accurate it is, a reamed
> hole
> >
> > should be better. Are these reusable or once you compress it does it fail
> > to
> > open back up enough to use again?
> >
> > John Hall
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: szabelsk at gdls.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 6:52 AM
> > To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
> >
> > It's called a Grooved Pin. The one that Farmall used on the pump for the
> H
> > is 1/8 inch diameter by 1 inch long, Type A.  The part number is 142488.
> > The concept in that the pin is slightly smaller than the hole it goes
> > into, however the pin has been slightly enlarged at the grooved end. The
> > groove allows the pin to be squeezed a little so that it fits snugly into
> > the hole and stays in place. They're supposed to be great for vibration.
> >
> > You can find info on them by doing a search on the internet using
> "GROOVED
> > PIN".
> >
> >
> > Carl Szabelski
> >
> >
> > The Borg Are Wrong, Resistance Is Not Futile ..... It's Voltage / Current
> >
> >
> >
> > From:   <jtchall at nc.rr.com>
> > To:     "Farmall/IHC mailing list" <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>,
> > Date:   02/24/2015 06:33 PM
> > Subject:        Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
> > Sent by:        farmall-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Wow, wish I could see this thing. I can't recall ever seeing a pin of
> this
> >
> > type, anybody know the proper name for this type of pin? I'd love to
> > figure
> > out what it is and look it up in my machinist handbook.
> >
> > Thanks for the help guys.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Steinich
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2015 8:41 AM
> > To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
> > Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
> >
> > If they've got the pulley assembly off the pump, they can remove the
> > bearings, clean it up well, and drive that pin into the center hole of
> the
> > hub. Then the real fun begins  - the pulley and hub have probably been
> > together over 50 years and might not want to be separated...
> > On Feb 23, 2015 8:58 PM, <jtchall at nc.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >> You mean a roll pin? According to what the guy told my dad, the hole
> >> doesn't
> >> go through, its blind. I'd love to have seen it.
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Barney Van De Weert
> >> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 9:26 PM
> >> To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
> >> Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
> >>
> >> I vaguely remember IH using a pin that had a slot on the side to hold
> >> stuff
> >> together back then-   Barney Van De Weert
> >>       From: "jtchall at nc.rr.com" <jtchall at nc.rr.com>
> >> To: farmall <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> >> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 7:37 PM
> >> Subject: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
> >>
> >> Dad got a call today wanting to now how to get the back half of the
> > pulley
> >> off of an H water pump, guy said it had some sort of pin in it that
> > didn?t
> >> appear to go through. Dad doesn?t remember and I?ve never worked on one.
> >
> >> My
> >> only thought was it?s a taper pin, but I?ve never seen those used
> > anywhere
> >> other than the gearbox on a lathe. Anybody know how it comes apart?
> >>
> >> John Hall
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Farmall mailing list
> > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/farmall
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Farmall mailing list
> > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/farmall
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Farmall mailing list
> > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/farmall
>
> _______________________________________________
> Farmall mailing list
> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/farmall
>



More information about the AT mailing list