[Farmall] H water pump pulley

John Gustafson gustafsonjohnc at wildblue.net
Fri Feb 27 06:02:09 PST 2015


In response to Jim Beckers musings abot groove pins vs roll pins. Roll pins 
do work well in a more or less static environment. Put a lot of vibration 
across the joint and they will walk out  of the hole. Does not have to be 
high frequency either. Ran into this back in the day when I was gainfullly 
employed as a mechanical engineer. The groove pins were a good deal more 
stable in that environment. On a personal note, at one time I had a Ford 
pickup wit a 3 speed column shift. The shift lever was attached with a roll 
pin that constantly kept working out. The roll pin just does not deal with a 
dymanic environment very well long term.  The solid groove pin generally 
worked much better.

John G


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Becker" <mr.jebecker at gmail.com>
To: "Farmall/IHC mailing list" <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley


>I never HAD TO.  I did have one crank pin that was loose enough to fall out
> by itself.
>
> I suspect these don't require the precision of hole size that a smooth pin
> would require.  They probably predate roll pins.  If roll pins had already
> been around, groove pins would have probably never ben invented.
>
> Jim Becker
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: jtchall at nc.rr.com
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 8:30 AM
> To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
>
> I can honestly say I've never had to get a pin out of a starting crank. I
> just assumed they were standard dowels. Learned something new today!
>
> John
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Jim Becker
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 8:58 AM
> To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
>
> I haven't even seen the inside of an H water pump since some time in the
> early 60s, so this may not apply at all.
>
> Some pins of this sort are short enough so they can be driven deeper into
> the hole and will fit entirely inside the inner part.  After disassembly,
> they can be knocked out with a punch.  The outer part is only drilled on 
> one
> side so the hole is effectively blind when it is assembled.
>
> By the way, at least some starting cranks have a pin that is grooved in 
> the
> center.
>
> Jim Becker
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: szabelsk at gdls.com
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 7:34 AM
> To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
>
> The hole should be slightly larger than the pin (not tapered as you might
> think). The pin has actually been spread just a little on one end when
> they press the groove into it. The groove is not full length. This allow
> the pin to easily slide into the hole until it meets the area when the pin
> starts to widen. This also helps when you're trying to line up two holes
> before setting the pin. The pin is then driven in flush hydraulically or
> by hammering. So only the grooved end of the pin in really under
> compression, the rest of the pin is not under any compression. If the hole
> is a thru hole you should be able to drive the pin back out. You should
> also be able to reuse the pin providing that the first installation didn't
> reduce the expanded area and affect how well it fits into the hole. For my
> two cents I would just get a new one and not take a chance that it won't
> fit as tight as it should, especially if you don't know how many times
> it's been removed and reinstalled.
>
> We have the same condition here with lock washers. Not knowing how many
> times a lockwasher has been compressed and uncompressed during use, or how
> long it's been under compression, we always replace lockwashers when we
> unbolt anything, no matter how "sprung" the washer looks.
>
> As far as the one used with the H water pump, I don't know if the hole is
> actually blind or not. If it isn't, I don't know how you would be able to
> get anything in there to drive the pin back out (maybe a micro hydraulic
> pump made by elves). If it is blind, you might be able to use an easy-out
> like you would for a broken bolt. Twisting and pulling at the same time
> may get it out. If not just keep drilling with small increases in drill
> size until you relieve the compression. I would guess that this would be
> somewhere about half way through the groove.
>
>
> Carl Szabelski
>
> The Borg Are Wrong, Resistance Is Not Futile ..... It's Voltage / Current
>
>
>
> From:   <jtchall at nc.rr.com>
> To:     "Farmall/IHC mailing list" <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>,
> Date:   02/25/2015 06:28 PM
> Subject:        Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
> Sent by:        farmall-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>
>
>
> OK, just looked them up on McMaster and see how they work. Looks like they
>
> may work in a drilled hole, depending on how accurate it is, a reamed hole
>
> should be better. Are these reusable or once you compress it does it fail
> to
> open back up enough to use again?
>
> John Hall
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: szabelsk at gdls.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 6:52 AM
> To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
>
> It's called a Grooved Pin. The one that Farmall used on the pump for the H
> is 1/8 inch diameter by 1 inch long, Type A.  The part number is 142488.
> The concept in that the pin is slightly smaller than the hole it goes
> into, however the pin has been slightly enlarged at the grooved end. The
> groove allows the pin to be squeezed a little so that it fits snugly into
> the hole and stays in place. They're supposed to be great for vibration.
>
> You can find info on them by doing a search on the internet using "GROOVED
> PIN".
>
>
> Carl Szabelski
>
>
> The Borg Are Wrong, Resistance Is Not Futile ..... It's Voltage / Current
>
>
>
> From:   <jtchall at nc.rr.com>
> To:     "Farmall/IHC mailing list" <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>,
> Date:   02/24/2015 06:33 PM
> Subject:        Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
> Sent by:        farmall-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>
>
>
> Wow, wish I could see this thing. I can't recall ever seeing a pin of this
>
> type, anybody know the proper name for this type of pin? I'd love to
> figure
> out what it is and look it up in my machinist handbook.
>
> Thanks for the help guys.
>
> John
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: David Steinich
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2015 8:41 AM
> To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
>
> If they've got the pulley assembly off the pump, they can remove the
> bearings, clean it up well, and drive that pin into the center hole of the
> hub. Then the real fun begins  - the pulley and hub have probably been
> together over 50 years and might not want to be separated...
> On Feb 23, 2015 8:58 PM, <jtchall at nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> You mean a roll pin? According to what the guy told my dad, the hole
>> doesn't
>> go through, its blind. I'd love to have seen it.
>>
>> John
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Barney Van De Weert
>> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 9:26 PM
>> To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
>>
>> I vaguely remember IH using a pin that had a slot on the side to hold
>> stuff
>> together back then-   Barney Van De Weert
>>       From: "jtchall at nc.rr.com" <jtchall at nc.rr.com>
>> To: farmall <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 7:37 PM
>> Subject: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
>>
>> Dad got a call today wanting to now how to get the back half of the
> pulley
>> off of an H water pump, guy said it had some sort of pin in it that
> didn?t
>> appear to go through. Dad doesn?t remember and I?ve never worked on one.
>
>> My
>> only thought was it?s a taper pin, but I?ve never seen those used
> anywhere
>> other than the gearbox on a lathe. Anybody know how it comes apart?
>>
>> John Hall
>
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