[Farmall] H water pump pulley

[Jim Becker]

I never HAD TO.  I did have one crank pin that was loose enough to fall out 
by itself.

I suspect these don't require the precision of hole size that a smooth pin 
would require.  They probably predate roll pins.  If roll pins had already 
been around, groove pins would have probably never ben invented.

Jim Becker

-----Original Message----- 
From: jtchall at nc.rr.com
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 8:30 AM
To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley

I can honestly say I've never had to get a pin out of a starting crank. I
just assumed they were standard dowels. Learned something new today!

John


-----Original Message----- 
From: Jim Becker
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 8:58 AM
To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley

I haven't even seen the inside of an H water pump since some time in the
early 60s, so this may not apply at all.

Some pins of this sort are short enough so they can be driven deeper into
the hole and will fit entirely inside the inner part.  After disassembly,
they can be knocked out with a punch.  The outer part is only drilled on one
side so the hole is effectively blind when it is assembled.

By the way, at least some starting cranks have a pin that is grooved in the
center.

Jim Becker

-----Original Message----- 
From: szabelsk at gdls.com
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2015 7:34 AM
To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley

The hole should be slightly larger than the pin (not tapered as you might
think). The pin has actually been spread just a little on one end when
they press the groove into it. The groove is not full length. This allow
the pin to easily slide into the hole until it meets the area when the pin
starts to widen. This also helps when you're trying to line up two holes
before setting the pin. The pin is then driven in flush hydraulically or
by hammering. So only the grooved end of the pin in really under
compression, the rest of the pin is not under any compression. If the hole
is a thru hole you should be able to drive the pin back out. You should
also be able to reuse the pin providing that the first installation didn't
reduce the expanded area and affect how well it fits into the hole. For my
two cents I would just get a new one and not take a chance that it won't
fit as tight as it should, especially if you don't know how many times
it's been removed and reinstalled.

We have the same condition here with lock washers. Not knowing how many
times a lockwasher has been compressed and uncompressed during use, or how
long it's been under compression, we always replace lockwashers when we
unbolt anything, no matter how "sprung" the washer looks.

As far as the one used with the H water pump, I don't know if the hole is
actually blind or not. If it isn't, I don't know how you would be able to
get anything in there to drive the pin back out (maybe a micro hydraulic
pump made by elves). If it is blind, you might be able to use an easy-out
like you would for a broken bolt. Twisting and pulling at the same time
may get it out. If not just keep drilling with small increases in drill
size until you relieve the compression. I would guess that this would be
somewhere about half way through the groove.


Carl Szabelski

The Borg Are Wrong, Resistance Is Not Futile ..... It's Voltage / Current



From:   <jtchall at nc.rr.com>
To:     "Farmall/IHC mailing list" <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>,
Date:   02/25/2015 06:28 PM
Subject:        Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
Sent by:        farmall-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com



OK, just looked them up on McMaster and see how they work. Looks like they

may work in a drilled hole, depending on how accurate it is, a reamed hole

should be better. Are these reusable or once you compress it does it fail
to
open back up enough to use again?

John Hall


-----Original Message----- 
From: szabelsk at gdls.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2015 6:52 AM
To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley

It's called a Grooved Pin. The one that Farmall used on the pump for the H
is 1/8 inch diameter by 1 inch long, Type A.  The part number is 142488.
The concept in that the pin is slightly smaller than the hole it goes
into, however the pin has been slightly enlarged at the grooved end. The
groove allows the pin to be squeezed a little so that it fits snugly into
the hole and stays in place. They're supposed to be great for vibration.

You can find info on them by doing a search on the internet using "GROOVED
PIN".


Carl Szabelski


The Borg Are Wrong, Resistance Is Not Futile ..... It's Voltage / Current



From:   <jtchall at nc.rr.com>
To:     "Farmall/IHC mailing list" <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>,
Date:   02/24/2015 06:33 PM
Subject:        Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
Sent by:        farmall-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com



Wow, wish I could see this thing. I can't recall ever seeing a pin of this

type, anybody know the proper name for this type of pin? I'd love to
figure
out what it is and look it up in my machinist handbook.

Thanks for the help guys.

John


-----Original Message----- 
From: David Steinich
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2015 8:41 AM
To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley

If they've got the pulley assembly off the pump, they can remove the
bearings, clean it up well, and drive that pin into the center hole of the
hub. Then the real fun begins  - the pulley and hub have probably been
together over 50 years and might not want to be separated...
On Feb 23, 2015 8:58 PM, <jtchall at nc.rr.com> wrote:

> You mean a roll pin? According to what the guy told my dad, the hole
> doesn't
> go through, its blind. I'd love to have seen it.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barney Van De Weert
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 9:26 PM
> To: Farmall/IHC mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
>
> I vaguely remember IH using a pin that had a slot on the side to hold
> stuff
> together back then-   Barney Van De Weert
>       From: "jtchall at nc.rr.com" <jtchall at nc.rr.com>
> To: farmall <farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2015 7:37 PM
> Subject: [Farmall] H water pump pulley
>
> Dad got a call today wanting to now how to get the back half of the
pulley
> off of an H water pump, guy said it had some sort of pin in it that
didn?t
> appear to go through. Dad doesn?t remember and I?ve never worked on one.

> My
> only thought was it?s a taper pin, but I?ve never seen those used
anywhere
> other than the gearbox on a lathe. Anybody know how it comes apart?
>
> John Hall

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