[AT] More Ford Jubilee Adventures

Fri Aug 28 20:11:05 PDT 2015

You might try to shrink the distributor to free it up.   Dry Ice and 
Alcohol work good, probably take a heavy towel around the distributor to 
hold the ice and then pour methanol on it.  Isopropil will work but it 
needs to be 90% or higher.   I use liquid nitrogen, but then I keep a 
Dewar filled for freeze branding.  Liquid propane will also work.  turn 
the bottle upside down and make sure the POL connection does not have a 
bronze filter in it.  As with all flammable materials try to eliminate 
the spark source.  If you freeze that distributor it will shrink and 
break loose.

Before I got liquid nitrogen, I used liquid propane....

Cecil in OKla

On 8/28/2015 9:50 PM, Mogrits wrote:
> I think it is mostly out, from a quick bump of the starter today. I can see
> the timing marks but the distributor remains stuck. We had an issue with
> the gas clothes dryer today that occupied all my free time and since my
> wife requested I fix it, that's what I did.
>
> I'll get up early tomorrow and start back in on the tractor. It's been
> pretty dry here and the bush-hogging I wanted to do can wait when my bride
> needs something fixed.
>
> I will report back and am proud to say i have not looked at one single new
> tractor nor craigslist at newer tractor ads.
>
> Warren
>
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 9:04 PM, Tyler Juranek <tylerpolkaman at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Warren,
>>   Did you get all the crap drained out of the tranny?
>>
>>   Been having a lot of "interesting" findings on my Oliver lately also.
>> You wouldn't believe all of the water and other stuff that came out of
>> the rearend when i drained it. So, dad put some gas in the bottom, and
>> we run it around the yard a time or two to wash the gears up, and then
>> we flushed it again.
>>   We put SAE 90 in it, and I drove it about 12 miles, brought it home,
>> and when I backed it into the shed, something milky was leakin again.
>> Ug.
>>   What do you expect? It's not young anymore! Grin!
>>   Take Care, and please keep us updated!
>> Tyler Juranek
>>   IA
>>
>> On 8/28/15, Mogrits <mogrits at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Thanks again for the great advice and more importantly, the moral
>> support.
>>> You guys are great.
>>>
>>> Warren
>>>
>>> Oh yeah, I was telling my wife about all the help y'all have been to me
>>> over the years and how discussion had taken it's annual turn to the
>>> Portland show and she said she'd consider going with me sometime.
>>> So...maybe next year. She is the salt of the earth but she is no camper,
>> so
>>> we will see.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 28, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Cecil R Bearden <crbearden at copper.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Since water is heavier than oil, it will sink to the bottom and float
>>>> the oil out of the transmission.
>>>>
>>>> Cecil in oKla
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/28/2015 7:42 AM, Stephen Offiler wrote:
>>>>> What you're going thru is completely normal, and your friend's advice
>>>>> is
>>>>> spot-on the money.
>>>>>
>>>>> In other words, you need to believe that old iron is fun to work on,
>>>>> and
>>>>> fun to put to work.  If it's nothing but hassles upon hassles and you
>>>> have
>>>>> work that needs to be done reliably, again, listen to your friend.
>>>>>
>>>>> SO
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 9:20 PM, Mogrits <mogrits at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Gosh this just keeps going. I got the wires on right and went to set
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> static timing and removed the inspection cover to look for timing
>>>>>> marks.
>>>>>> bumped the motor a few times and chocolate milk came out of the hole
>>>>>> indicating a leaky transmission seal (engine oil is normal) along
>> with
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> leaky transmission. I have to park it outside and assume the shifter
>>>> boot
>>>>>> is leaking. So I drained the transmission and got a lot of water out
>>>> with a
>>>>>> little oil. Then I googled and found out about the cotter pin that is
>>>>>> supposed to be in the drain hole in the bellhousing which is missing
>>>>>> on
>>>> my
>>>>>> tractor, and the hole is clogged up. So I cleaned that out and got
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> water and oil but the flywheel is still dipping itself in the soup so
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> sprayed a lot of carb cleaner through the timing hole while turning
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> starter. Hopefully tomorrow it will be flushed I can find out why the
>>>>>> distributor is stuck and try to get the thing in time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I asked a friend who is a grading contractor who has operated a lot
>> of
>>>> Ford
>>>>>> and New Holland over the years for advice on this tractor and he said
>>>> "If
>>>>>> you want to do any work with it, sell it to someone who wants to look
>>>> at it
>>>>>> and buy something that works". I know he is right but I have not yet
>>>>>> reached that point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Warren
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 12:59 AM, charlie hill <
>>>> charliehill at embarqmail.com
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Warren,   Pull the spark plugs, spin the engine over slowly, by hand
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> possible until it comes up top dead center on the #1 piston and on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> compression stroke.  Put the #1 spark plug wire on the distributor
>>>>>>> cap
>>>>>>> lug that corresponds with where the rotor button is pointing and
>> then
>>>>>>> connect
>>>>>>> the rest of the wires in the correct firing order from there.   You
>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> pull the distributor out enough to turn the rotor a notch or so on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> gear
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> you shouldn't have to move it much.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Charlie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Mogrits
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2015 7:53 PM
>>>>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] More Ford Jubilee Adventures
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So it looked to me like the distributor is rotated 180 degrees, as
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> how the old wires were installed. I put them back correctly and it
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>> pop
>>>>>>> but not come close to running. I'm going to look it up and plan to
>>>>>>> pull
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> distributor and reinstall and then set the static timing, assuming I
>>>> can
>>>>>>> find a standard procedure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Warren
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 9:45 PM, Steve Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Just wanted to say there is a ton of good advice here.  Well done
>>>>>> Howard.
>>>>>>>> If I could add anything at all, I'd suggest replacing points
>>>> resistance
>>>>>>>> test with a voltage drop test.  This has two benefits.  One, most
>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>> volt
>>>>>>>> meter even real cheap ones will handle it.  Two, it's a real world
>>>> test
>>>>>>>> done under the kind of current load the system actually works with.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Engine off, roll the distributor cam so points are closed.  Connect
>>>>>> meter
>>>>>>>> set to volt range across the points. Meaning, one meter lead on the
>>>>>> coil
>>>>>>>> terminal that goes to the points, and the other to chassis.  Old
>>>> analog
>>>>>>>> meter, watch your polarity.  Digital meter if you're backward it
>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>> puts
>>>>>>>> up a minus-sign, no big deal.  Now turn on ignition.  Current flows
>>>>>> thru
>>>>>>>> coil and points to ground.  If the points are good, voltage will be
>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>> 0.1 volt or less.  If they are bad, they're typically way higher,
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> full volt or more.  This test is not usually ambiguous.  Good vs
>> bad
>>>> is
>>>>>>>> very different on even a cheap meter.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> SO
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Aug 11, 2015, at 7:01 PM, Howard Weeks <weeksh at att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't claim to be any kind of "condenser" expert but here are a
>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>> comments on the subject:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Back in the early 50s, I worked weekends for an old car/tractor
>>>>>>>>> mechanic. He checked condensers by using a kick test. Basically,
>> he
>>>>>> put
>>>>>>>>> the subject condenser in series with a small amp meter and placed
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> combination across a 6 or 12 volt battery momentarily. If you got
>> a
>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>>> kick on the amp meter and then nothing, the cap was good. No kick
>>>>>> meant
>>>>>>>>> it was bad. Any continuous current meant it was also bad. Be sure
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> discharge the cap by shorting it before connecting across the
>>>>>> battery.
>>>>>>>>> This test always worked for him.  I have an old piece of test
>>>>>> equipment
>>>>>>>>> here that also checks a cap in the same manner. Some people can do
>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> test with one of the older design ohmmeters. The new digital
>> meters
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> not do the test.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2. I have been restoring antique radios in some form for most of
>> my
>>>>>>> life
>>>>>>>>> and I have a lot of both old and late model test equipment
>> designed
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> evaluating capacitors. Most of the ignition caps that I have
>>>>>>>>> checked
>>>>>>>>> measured approximately .17 - .2 microfarads in capacity. The
>> choice
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> this capacity is a function of the coil design and if properly
>>>>>> selected
>>>>>>>>> by the designer, the system should run indefinitely and not pit
>> the
>>>>>>>>> points. If they pit badly, it is a sign that the coil and cap are
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> properly matched or selected. Which side of the points gets pitted
>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>>>> sign of whether the cap is high or low in value for a particular
>>>>>>>>> combination of cap and coil. I am not trying to say that they have
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> a "matched set" - just that a gross change in cap or coil type
>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> a problem. Most of the old ignition reference books from back in
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> 20s
>>>>>>>>> and 30s do a pretty good job of explaining how they work and how
>> to
>>>>>>> test
>>>>>>>>> them. I can't honestly say that I have ever found a truly bad
>>>>>>> condenser.
>>>>>>>>> But I have had hell with the point resistance (don't know where
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> were made)!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3. When point are closed, they should measure less than 1 ohm -
>>>>>>>>> preferably close to zero ohms ever time they close for the
>> ignition
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> work properly. If they measure 2 - 5 ohms, the system will either
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> run or it will be very sick. Same for magneto or standard ignition
>>>>>>>>> system. Many of the cheaper ohm meters will not accurately measure
>>>>>>>>> resistances below a few ohms.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 4. The resistors that are in series with some coils are designed
>> to
>>>>>>>>> limit the current through the coils when the engine is running.
>> The
>>>>>> DC
>>>>>>>>> current through the coils should be in the range of 3 - 6 amps or
>>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>> when the engine is running. RPM and dwell settings will affect the
>>>>>>>>> amount of current to some extent. If a coil designed for a
>> resistor
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> run without one, it will run for awhile but the coil will overheat
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> usually quit fairly quickly. Putting a momentary short across that
>>>>>>>>> resistor when starting the engine would produce a hotter spark for
>>>>>>>>> starting purposes.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 5. Pay some attention to the polarity of the coil connection to
>> the
>>>>>>>>> distributor. If you have a negative ground battery system, the "-"
>>>>>> end
>>>>>>>>> of the coil should be connected to the distributor. The "+" end of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> coil goes to the distributor if a you have a positive ground
>>>>>>>>> system.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Don't know if any of this spiel is useful to anyone but it
>>>>>>>>> accurately
>>>>>>>>> describes my experience with Kettering ignition systems.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Howard in GA
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 8/9/2015 2:30 PM, Mogrits wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I don't disagree with you on anything you said, except the
>>>>>>>>>> resistor
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>> been bypassed on my tractor and it uses a coil that needs no
>>>>>> resistor.
>>>>>>>>>> Substituting for the new, correct condensor produces a spark. The
>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>> condensor does not. So there is definitely a need to replace that
>>>>>>>>>> particular condensor.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 2:13 PM, Ron Cook <ron at lakeport-1.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> There is usually no reason to replace a condenser.  Starting
>>>>>> problems
>>>>>>>>>>> with Ford N tractors can usually be traced to the resistor.
>>>>>>>>>>> And I certainly do agree on the crap that is sold these days
>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>>>> good right out of the box.  I quit going to TSC years ago for
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>> reason.  So too, did many.  TSC closed their store in Sioux
>> City.
>>>>>>>>>>> It has actually helped my generator/starter repair business a
>>>>>> little.
>>>>>>>>>>> The do it yourself bunch have lost their cheap parts supplier,
>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>>> really were not cheap anyway considering you always have to buy
>>>>>>>>>>> two
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> more to fix the problem.
>>>>>>>>>>> Ron Cook
>>>>>>>>>>> Salix, IA
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 8/9/2015 5:52 AM, Cecil R Bearden wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I went through the same thing with a fence charger 2 weeks ago.
>>>>>>>> Worked
>>>>>>>>>>>> all afternoon in 105 heat index to get wire up around yard to
>>>>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>>>>> pet
>>>>>>>>>>>> bull in.  Had a good charger in a tool box next to the other
>>>>>>>>>>>> elect
>>>>>>>>>>>> service at the South Barn.  It would barely spark.  Dug out the
>>>>>>> brand
>>>>>>>>>>>> new Zareba charger from TSC that had never been used, it had no
>>>>>>>>>>>> spark.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Took the Harbor Freight solar one off the back fence and it was
>>>>>>> shot.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Took the Parmak solar fencer off the divider fence for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> horses
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> worked!!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I certainly hope the pertronix system fixes your
>>>>>>> problem...Condensers
>>>>>>>>>>>> are being made in China or some other 3rd world country, so
>>>>>> quality
>>>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>>>>>>> problem...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Cecil in OKla
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