[AT] Ram fuel mileage

Mon Jun 16 12:15:11 PDT 2014

Yup, agreed; I forgot to add that one.  It's a small factor but it is on
the list. Like I said, *all* the factors on my list are relatively small,
but taken together they add up to a noticable drop in MPG in winter.

SO

On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 12:12 PM, Phil Vorwerk <pvorwerk at newulmtel.net>
wrote:

> Don't forget also that in colder climates the mix of the diesel fuel
> changes
> for winter, and the cold climate blend will drop your mileage all by
> itself...
>
> Phil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Offiler
> Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2014 6:58 AM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] Ram fuel mileage
>
> Seasonal difference in fuel economy arises from a combination of factors,
> each contributing a minor amount but they all add up to a noticeable
> amount.
>
> Rolling resistance increases at cold temperature.  This relates to
> increased viscosity of driveline lubricants plus decreased flexibility of
> the tires.
>
> Air resistance increases at cold temperature.  Density is higher therefore
> drag is higher.
>
> Engine warmup takes longer and therefore more fuel is burned during that
> period.  This relates to the heat contained in the block and cooling system
> and also relates to lubricant viscosity.
>
> Electrical loads tend to be higher.  HVAC fans draw surprising amps, plus
> heated seats, rear window defrosters, headlights, etc.
>
> SOME people idle their cars to prewarm them in cold weather, especially
> with the rise of those wireless remote-start systems.  Obviously doesn't
> apply if this is not your habit.
>
> If you drive a turbocharged and intercooled vehicle, the intercooler
> becomes significantly more efficient at cold temperatures and you will feel
> an increase in power.  This is NOT an increase in efficiency.  More power
> comes from additional air stuffed into the cylinders and therefore more
> fuel can be burned.
>
> SO
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 5:10 PM, Spencer Yost <yostsw at atis.net> wrote:
>
> > Hey herb,
> >
> > It's a 2011 VW Golf TDI 2door hatchback with the manual 6 speed
> > transmission.   One of the last of the Wolfsburg, Germany cars.
> >
> > My commute, each way, is 45 mile interstate and 18 miles of country roads
> > with just a half dozen stop signs.
> >
> >
> > In pure city/suburb, I still get 37-39mpg winter/summer
> >
> > I have never understood the difference in the seasons.   My only
> > hypothesis is general thermal efficiency.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> > Spencer
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Jun 13, 2014, at 15:29, "Herb Metz" <metz-h.b at comcast.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Have not been very attentive of some posts, but I sure noticed the 44
> and
> > > 47.  Your VW Golf diesel is what year? what transmission? sedan? your
> > > principal transportation?  Engine size? Etc?
> > > Herb
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Spencer Yost
> > > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 3:04 PM
> > > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > Subject: Re: [AT] Ram fuel mileage
> > >
> > > Thanks for the clarification.  I thought the urea was for the DPT and
> > urea
> > > was somehow burned during regen.   I did not realize it was NOx
> reduction
> > > instead of the detune.
> > >
> > > I average 44mpg in the winter, and 47mpg in the summer (fill-up
> > > calculations - not computer) with my VW golf diesel.   I can't imagine
> > > Exhaust Fluid raising it much more than 3% and am very glad I have a
> > spare
> > > and no exhaust fluid.
> > >
> > > BTW:  Am I the only one who think exhaust fluid sounds like the old
> > "blinker
> > > fluid level" joke?  (-:
> > >
> > > Spencer
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > >> On Jun 13, 2014, at 10:36, Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Most of the diesels available new in the USA are using DEF (that is
> > Diesel
> > >> Exhaust Fluid and is the common name for the urea that Spencer
> > mentioned).
> > >> There are some exceptions in the VW TDI lineup.  It's all a matter of
> > >> meeting the US emissions specifications.  If they can tune (or detune)
> > the
> > >> engine to meet emissions without DEF, then they might choose that
> route.
> > >> For example, VW detunes the Jetta TDI and omits DEF, resulting in
> > slightly
> > >> lower fuel economy versus the Passat TDI which does use DEF.
> > >>
> > >> DEF controls oxides of nitrogen, not particulates.
> > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_fluid
> > >>
> > >> Yes, the new Ram Ecodiesel engine requires DEF.  Ram claims 11 gallons
> > per
> > >> 10,000 miles which is 909 miles per gallon DEF. Some Internet forum
> > >> discussion reports actual consumption rates slightly above 1000 miles
> > per
> > >> gallon DEF.  1000 is a nice round number.  NAPA sells 2.5 gallon jugs
> > for
> > >> $14 (= $5.60 per gallon DEF) but it is starting to show up at gas
> > stations
> > >> for reportedly as little as $3 per gallon DEF. Let's just call it a
> nice
> > >> round $5 per gallon.  That's an additional expense of $5 per 1000
> miles
> > on
> > >> top of fuel cost.  At 25 MPG and $4 per gallon for fuel, it costs $160
> > for
> > >> fuel to drive 1000 miles, so just make that $165.  If you were to
> think
> > of
> > >> DEF like some sort of fuel surcharge, it works out to 3%.
> > >>
> > >> As a side-note, particulates are controlled with a Diesel Particulate
> > >> Filter (DPF) which is built sort of like a catalytic converter but it
> > >> doesn't do any catalyzing.  It traps the particles and then
> periodically
> > >> heats WAY up (650C plus, which is 1200F plus) to burn the collected
> > >> particles down to ash.  This is called DPF Regeneration.  It will
> happen
> > >> naturally if you drive hard enough to get it that hot; otherwise it
> will
> > >> be
> > >> forced to happen periodically (about every 500-1000 miles) by
> injection
> > of
> > >> extra fuel.
> > >>
> > >> SO
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 9:08 AM, Spencer Yost <yostsw at atis.net>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> One side note.  The diesel they build for the Chevy Cruz American
> > market
> > >>> uses urea injection for particulate control.    The urea tank is just
> > >>> another tank to fill and eliminates the spare tire.   They give you a
> > can
> > >>> of fix-a-flat instead!
> > >>>
> > >>> Not sure about about the larger engines.   I was only looking at
> cars.
> > >>> In the end my wife decided to keep her VW diesel jetta (fuel is used
> > for
> > >>> particulate control) and run it into the ground.  Which is proving
> hard
> > >>> to
> > >>> do (-:
> > >>>
> > >>> Spencer
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>>
> > >>>> On Jun 13, 2014, at 0:55, "Sewell, Steven" <sewell at ohio.edu> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Dennis keep us updated on the truck. The same diesel is an option in
> > the
> > >>> Jeep Grand Cherokee.  I've been looking at the Jeep for our "car"
> > >>> replacement in the next year.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Steve Sewell
> > >>>> Albany, Ohio USA
> > >>>> sewell at ohio.edu
> > >>>> sewell at atis.net
> > >>>> ________________________________________
> > >>>> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [
> > >>> at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Dennis Johnson [
> > >>> moscowengnr at yahoo.com]
> > >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2014 12:56 PM
> > >>>> To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > >>>> Subject: [AT] Ram fuel mileage
> > >>>>
> > >>>> All,
> > >>>> The mileage numbers were calculated after entering gallons and miles
> > >>> into a spreadsheet. I also did trip average for the long trips via
> > >>> spreadsheet. I also do a running 3 tank average to check for
> incomplete
> > >>> fill ups, etc.
> > >>>> I do not have a good way to account for idle time, etc. truck
> records
> > >>> idle vs drive time, but not sure exactly what to do with this other
> > than
> > >>> keep for general information.
> > >>>> I am guessing the screen numbers on the dash are a little bit high,
> > but
> > >>> still impressed with the truck.
> > >>>> Thanks
> > >>>> Dennis
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sent from my iPad
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
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> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> AT mailing list
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> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
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