[AT] , now BSA/Triumph

Stephen Offiler soffiler at gmail.com
Tue Jul 8 08:17:16 PDT 2014


Not the same people.  See this link under "History"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_Motorcycles_Ltd



On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 10:54 AM, charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
wrote:

> Interesting reading.
>
>
> http://www.triumphmotorcycles.com/triumph-world/triumph-history?returnUrl=http://www.triumphmotorcycles.com/bikes/bike-categories/classics
>
> It appears that they are still manufactured by the same people.  There is
> no
> break in the line of history shown on the site above and no mention
> of sale to another owner unless I skipped over it somehow.
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Herb Metz
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 10:20 AM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] , now BSA/Triumph
>
> Stephen, will have to remember that test. This has been an interesting and
> informative discussion. In todays world someone is manufacturing a
> motorcycle that has strong resemblance to the old Triumph motorcycle and
> carries Triumph labels. We saw a bunch of them several years ago when a
> "Tour of GA" bike race passed our home on its way north into the
> Appalachian
> mountains.  All race officials were on green Triumphs.  Told Barbara wish I
> had known this, I would have pushed for such a position and opportunity;
> not
> really.  Anyone know who owns the new Triumph manufacturing Co? Herb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen Offiler
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 9:35 AM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
>
> I would agree that it is absolutely possible, Charlie.  The British motor
> industry (both cars and motorcycles) was convoluted and incestuous. Entire
> books have been written (looks like quite a large number of them, in fact)
> to document the ins and outs.  In short, Wikipedia tells us that BSA
> purchased Triumph Engineering in 1951.
>
> That said, I can't seem to find online references to a BSA branded as
> Triumph, your link notwithstanding.  I think we've come far enough to
> figure that the bike you recall from college was certainly a big single and
> almost certainly a BSA beneath whatever branding it wore.  Right?
>
> I'd also like to share with you the "CRAAP" test to determine legitimacy of
> reference information (not just online but ANY info you'd like to use as
> reference).  My wife is a librarian and she shared this with me years ago.
> In my opinion, your link, which calls the pictured BSA a "1968 Triumph Bsa
> 441 Victor Ss" fails the A, A, and P parts of this test:
>
>
> Currency: The timeliness of the information.
> When was the information published or posted?
> Is the information current or out-of date for your topic?
>
> Relevance:The importance of the information for your needs.
> Does the information relate to your topic or answer your question?
> Who is the intended audience?
> Is it too elementary or advanced for your needs?
>
> Authority: The source of the information.
> Who is the author/publisher/source/sponsor?
> Are the author's credentials or organizational affiliations given?
> What are the author's qualifications to write on the topic?
> Is there contact information, such as a publisher or e-mail address?
> Does the URL reveal anything about the author or source?
>      examples: .com .edu .gov .org .net *
>
> Accuracy: The reliability, truthfulness, and correctness of the
> informational content.
> Where does the information come from?
> Is the information supported by evidence?
> Has the information been reviewed or refereed?
> Can you verify any of the information in another source or from personal
> knowledge?
> Does the language or tone seem biased and free of emotion?
> Are there spelling, grammar, or other typographical errors?
>
> Purpose: The reason the information exists.
> What is the purpose of the information? to inform? teach? sell? entertain?
> persuade?
> Do the authors/sponsors make their intentions or purpose clear?
> Is the information fact? opinion? propaganda?
> Does the point of view appear objective and impartial?
> Are there political, ideological, cultural, religious, institutional, or
> personal biases?
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 8:38 AM, charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I've seen that Herb however, the fact that there is a picture online
> > that says it is a Triumph BSA 441 coupled with the fact that I
> > remembered a Triumph 441 with no reason or background that
> > would make me get it confused makes me believe that at some
> > point in time that BSA 441 might have been marketed by Triumph.
> > Much the same way as some Oliver tractors were marketed as
> > Massey Fergusons at one time.  We might never know.   I guess
> > that bike online is close enough that I could go check it out if I wanted
> > and if the guy still had it.  It's only about 100 miles from me.
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Herb Metz
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 8:41 PM
> > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
> >
> > Charlie,go to google and type in 1968 BSA, drop down a couple lines and
> > click on 441 victor special, and up pops
> > this photo.  Herb
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: charlie hill
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 5:42 PM
> > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
> >
> > Steve did you read the information below the picture.
> > If not scroll down the page.
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stephen Offiler
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 3:01 PM
> > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
> >
> > Charlie:
> >
> > In that link you provided, I can't say *exactly* what model that is, but
> > the engine is pretty unmistakably a BSA.  Compare it to this one:
> >
> > http://www.propsonwheels.com/images/motorcycles/BSA%20441%20victor.jpg
> >
> > And the badge on the tank.  Resolution isn't very good, but if I squint,
> I
> > can make out the features of this:
> >
> > http://www.britishclassicmotorcycles.com/images/BSA%20logo.jpg
> >
> > SO
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 2:32 PM, charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Herb, what is the one in the link I sent you?  BSA or Triumph?
> > > They call it a Triumph BSA.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Herb Metz
> > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 1:59 PM
> > > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
> > >
> > > Charlie, back then they were very similar in appearance; however very
> > much
> > > competitors.  BSA (Birmingham Small Arms) mfged a large variety of
> > singles
> > > and twins; Triumph was mostly twins with one small single and one large
> > > 3
> > > cylinder. Please not this info is dated because I now longer paid
> > > attention
> > > to bikes when I went into service and after.  Herb
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: charlie hill
> > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 12:43 PM
> > > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
> > >
> > > Maybe it was a BSA but I would have sworn it was a Triumph.
> > >
> > > Here you go.  Maybe this is what it was.
> > > http://www.akbikes.com/view_cycle_details.php?RID=821
> > > BSA badges as Triumph?
> > >
> > > Charlie
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Stephen Offiler
> > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 11:29 AM
> > > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
> > >
> > > BSA had a popular thumper called the 441.  Not that it matters whether
> > > Triumph or BSA.  I like the image of dirt kicking w/ each hit!
> > >
> > > SO
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 11:11 AM, charlie hill <
> > charliehill at embarqmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Herb a kid that lived in the same dorm with me in college had
> > > > a Triumph with a big single cyl. engine.  I want to say it was a
> > > > 441 or 444 or something like that.  He would put that thing in
> > > > low gear and let it idle on dirt or gravel and every time the engine
> > > > hit the rear wheel would kick dirt.
> > > >
> > > > Charlie
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Herb Metz
> > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 9:14 AM
> > > > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > > Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
> > > >
> > > > Decades ago I had a loaner motorcycle while my T-100 English Triumph
> > was
> > > > disabled. The loaner was a 500cc single cylinder BSA (referred to as
> a
> > > > thumper), with a compression release controlled by a small lever on
> > > > handlebar (not sure whether on left or right side). Looking back I
> was
> > > > wondering why two cylinder JD's did not have similar; and now we know
> > > that
> > > > they did on some special applications.  Herb
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Brian VanDragt
> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2014 9:53 PM
> > > > To: 'Antique tractor email discussion group'
> > > > Subject: Re: [AT] flooding in Saskatchewan and Manitoba
> > > >
> > > > The petcock operating levers were for use with a mounted picker.  You
> > > > couldn't get to them easily with the picker on.
> > > > Brian
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > > > [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Dean VP
> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2014 7:36 PM
> > > > To: 'Antique tractor email discussion group'
> > > > Subject: Re: [AT] flooding in Saskatchewan and Manitoba
> > > >
> > > > Ron,
> > > >
> > > > I've seen somewhere in my travels even maybe a memory from the 50's
> > > > where
> > > > there were levers and rods that were attached to the side of the dash
> > so
> > > > the
> > > > operator could open and close the petcocks from the driver's seat.  I
> > > > don't
> > > > recall seeing something like that recently.  Maybe it was a home
> brew!
> > > >
> > > > Dean VP
> > > > Snohomish, WA
> > > >
> > > > They say necessity is the mother of invention.
> > > > Don't know who the father is, probably remorse.
> > > > Red Green
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > > > [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Ron Cook
> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2014 11:51 PM
> > > > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > > Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: flooding in Saskatchewan and Manitoba
> > > >
> > > > Yep.  I noticed those loose bolts on the interconnect cable ends
> right
> > > > off.
> > > > The cables are in good condition.  Near new and are in series with
> > > > positive
> > > > ground.  However, Dean had brought the tractor home, so they were
> > > > obviously
> > > > making connection at the time.  Not a big deal at all.
> > > > Normal, as a matter of fact.  Heck, most have just installed a 12V
> > > battery
> > > > and stopped using the two sixes.  I have. That keeps most my
> > > > batteries the same.   Just keep the correct police out from under the
> > > > seat cushion.  I even got fed up with the 6V system on my '46 A and
> > > > converted it to 12V about 20 years ago. Now I can start it without
> > > getting
> > > > off and opening the petcocks.:-)
> > > >
> > > > Ron Cook
> > > > Salix, IA
> > > > On 7/5/2014 8:54 PM, Dean VP wrote:
> > > > > I'm reading and responding to these emails via cell phone so I'm
> > > > > doubly handicapped! -:)
> > > > >
> > > > > Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original message-----
> > > > > From: Mike <meulenms at gmx.com>
> > > > > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > > > <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > > > Sent: Sun, Jul 6, 2014 01:19:17 GMT+00:00
> > > > > Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re:  flooding in Saskatchewan and Manitoba
> > > > >
> > > > > Look at the nuts on the clamp bolts Dean, they are not even close
> to
> > > > tight.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike M
> > > > > On 7/5/2014 7:30 PM, Dean VP wrote:
> > > > >> You have much better eyes than I do if you can see the loose
> > > > >> connections between the two batteries.  However, these are 6V
> > > > >> batteries so they need
> > > > > to
> > > > >> be in Series to get the required 12V for the JD 620.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
> > > > >>
> > > > >> -----Original message-----
> > > > >> From: vschwartz1 at comcast.net
> > > > >> To: Antique <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > > >> Sent: Sat, Jul 5, 2014 22:56:42 GMT+00:00
> > > > >> Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re:  flooding in Saskatchewan and Manitoba
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Ralph; Your reply made it to Central Missouri just fine although
> it
> > > > >> did
> > > > > come
> > > > >> in after Janice and John's comment. I guess everyone is looking at
> > > > >> the
> > > > > John
> > > > >> Deere 620 battery box and wondering who installed those batteries
> > and
> > > > >> cables. After I looked the second time I could see the short cable
> > > > >> was not tight on either end as well as being on the wrong Posts
> for
> > a
> > > > >> 12 Volt set up. At this point I am assuming that a 620 John Deere
> > > > >> should be 12 volt. I am thinking the battery cables were
> > disconnected
> > > > >> for long term storage and the guy who put it up for sale made an
> > > > >> error
> > > > in
> > > > the connections.
> > > > >> Gil
> > > > >>
> > > >
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> > > > -----
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> > > > Version: 2014.0.4716 / Virus Database: 3986/7808 - Release Date:
> > > > 07/06/14
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