[AT] , now BSA/Triumph

charlie hill charliehill at embarqmail.com
Tue Jul 8 07:49:22 PDT 2014


Herb,  there is a dealer in Jacksonville, NC (about 35 miles from me) that
sells Triumph motorcycles. 
http://www.southeasternsteelchoppers.com/new_vehicle_inventory.asp
I know nothing about them other than seeing their ad and I think
I know where their shop is.  No Idea who builds the bike.

Charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Herb Metz
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 10:20 AM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] , now BSA/Triumph

Stephen, will have to remember that test. This has been an interesting and
informative discussion. In todays world someone is manufacturing a
motorcycle that has strong resemblance to the old Triumph motorcycle and
carries Triumph labels. We saw a bunch of them several years ago when a
"Tour of GA" bike race passed our home on its way north into the Appalachian
mountains.  All race officials were on green Triumphs.  Told Barbara wish I
had known this, I would have pushed for such a position and opportunity; not
really.  Anyone know who owns the new Triumph manufacturing Co? Herb

-----Original Message----- 
From: Stephen Offiler
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2014 9:35 AM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD

I would agree that it is absolutely possible, Charlie.  The British motor
industry (both cars and motorcycles) was convoluted and incestuous. Entire
books have been written (looks like quite a large number of them, in fact)
to document the ins and outs.  In short, Wikipedia tells us that BSA
purchased Triumph Engineering in 1951.

That said, I can't seem to find online references to a BSA branded as
Triumph, your link notwithstanding.  I think we've come far enough to
figure that the bike you recall from college was certainly a big single and
almost certainly a BSA beneath whatever branding it wore.  Right?

I'd also like to share with you the "CRAAP" test to determine legitimacy of
reference information (not just online but ANY info you'd like to use as
reference).  My wife is a librarian and she shared this with me years ago.
In my opinion, your link, which calls the pictured BSA a "1968 Triumph Bsa
441 Victor Ss" fails the A, A, and P parts of this test:


Currency: The timeliness of the information.
When was the information published or posted?
Is the information current or out-of date for your topic?

Relevance:The importance of the information for your needs.
Does the information relate to your topic or answer your question?
Who is the intended audience?
Is it too elementary or advanced for your needs?

Authority: The source of the information.
Who is the author/publisher/source/sponsor?
Are the author's credentials or organizational affiliations given?
What are the author's qualifications to write on the topic?
Is there contact information, such as a publisher or e-mail address?
Does the URL reveal anything about the author or source?
     examples: .com .edu .gov .org .net *

Accuracy: The reliability, truthfulness, and correctness of the
informational content.
Where does the information come from?
Is the information supported by evidence?
Has the information been reviewed or refereed?
Can you verify any of the information in another source or from personal
knowledge?
Does the language or tone seem biased and free of emotion?
Are there spelling, grammar, or other typographical errors?

Purpose: The reason the information exists.
What is the purpose of the information? to inform? teach? sell? entertain?
persuade?
Do the authors/sponsors make their intentions or purpose clear?
Is the information fact? opinion? propaganda?
Does the point of view appear objective and impartial?
Are there political, ideological, cultural, religious, institutional, or
personal biases?


On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 8:38 AM, charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
wrote:

> I've seen that Herb however, the fact that there is a picture online
> that says it is a Triumph BSA 441 coupled with the fact that I
> remembered a Triumph 441 with no reason or background that
> would make me get it confused makes me believe that at some
> point in time that BSA 441 might have been marketed by Triumph.
> Much the same way as some Oliver tractors were marketed as
> Massey Fergusons at one time.  We might never know.   I guess
> that bike online is close enough that I could go check it out if I wanted
> and if the guy still had it.  It's only about 100 miles from me.
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Herb Metz
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 8:41 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
>
> Charlie,go to google and type in 1968 BSA, drop down a couple lines and
> click on 441 victor special, and up pops
> this photo.  Herb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: charlie hill
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 5:42 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
>
> Steve did you read the information below the picture.
> If not scroll down the page.
>
> Charlie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen Offiler
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 3:01 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
>
> Charlie:
>
> In that link you provided, I can't say *exactly* what model that is, but
> the engine is pretty unmistakably a BSA.  Compare it to this one:
>
> http://www.propsonwheels.com/images/motorcycles/BSA%20441%20victor.jpg
>
> And the badge on the tank.  Resolution isn't very good, but if I squint, I
> can make out the features of this:
>
> http://www.britishclassicmotorcycles.com/images/BSA%20logo.jpg
>
> SO
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 2:32 PM, charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Herb, what is the one in the link I sent you?  BSA or Triumph?
> > They call it a Triumph BSA.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Herb Metz
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 1:59 PM
> > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
> >
> > Charlie, back then they were very similar in appearance; however very
> much
> > competitors.  BSA (Birmingham Small Arms) mfged a large variety of
> singles
> > and twins; Triumph was mostly twins with one small single and one large
> > 3
> > cylinder. Please not this info is dated because I now longer paid
> > attention
> > to bikes when I went into service and after.  Herb
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: charlie hill
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 12:43 PM
> > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
> >
> > Maybe it was a BSA but I would have sworn it was a Triumph.
> >
> > Here you go.  Maybe this is what it was.
> > http://www.akbikes.com/view_cycle_details.php?RID=821
> > BSA badges as Triumph?
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stephen Offiler
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 11:29 AM
> > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
> >
> > BSA had a popular thumper called the 441.  Not that it matters whether
> > Triumph or BSA.  I like the image of dirt kicking w/ each hit!
> >
> > SO
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 11:11 AM, charlie hill <
> charliehill at embarqmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Herb a kid that lived in the same dorm with me in college had
> > > a Triumph with a big single cyl. engine.  I want to say it was a
> > > 441 or 444 or something like that.  He would put that thing in
> > > low gear and let it idle on dirt or gravel and every time the engine
> > > hit the rear wheel would kick dirt.
> > >
> > > Charlie
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Herb Metz
> > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 9:14 AM
> > > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > Subject: Re: [AT] , now JD
> > >
> > > Decades ago I had a loaner motorcycle while my T-100 English Triumph
> was
> > > disabled. The loaner was a 500cc single cylinder BSA (referred to as a
> > > thumper), with a compression release controlled by a small lever on
> > > handlebar (not sure whether on left or right side). Looking back I was
> > > wondering why two cylinder JD's did not have similar; and now we know
> > that
> > > they did on some special applications.  Herb
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Brian VanDragt
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2014 9:53 PM
> > > To: 'Antique tractor email discussion group'
> > > Subject: Re: [AT] flooding in Saskatchewan and Manitoba
> > >
> > > The petcock operating levers were for use with a mounted picker.  You
> > > couldn't get to them easily with the picker on.
> > > Brian
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > > [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Dean VP
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2014 7:36 PM
> > > To: 'Antique tractor email discussion group'
> > > Subject: Re: [AT] flooding in Saskatchewan and Manitoba
> > >
> > > Ron,
> > >
> > > I've seen somewhere in my travels even maybe a memory from the 50's
> > > where
> > > there were levers and rods that were attached to the side of the dash
> so
> > > the
> > > operator could open and close the petcocks from the driver's seat.  I
> > > don't
> > > recall seeing something like that recently.  Maybe it was a home brew!
> > >
> > > Dean VP
> > > Snohomish, WA
> > >
> > > They say necessity is the mother of invention.
> > > Don't know who the father is, probably remorse.
> > > Red Green
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > > [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Ron Cook
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2014 11:51 PM
> > > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: flooding in Saskatchewan and Manitoba
> > >
> > > Yep.  I noticed those loose bolts on the interconnect cable ends right
> > > off.
> > > The cables are in good condition.  Near new and are in series with
> > > positive
> > > ground.  However, Dean had brought the tractor home, so they were
> > > obviously
> > > making connection at the time.  Not a big deal at all.
> > > Normal, as a matter of fact.  Heck, most have just installed a 12V
> > battery
> > > and stopped using the two sixes.  I have. That keeps most my
> > > batteries the same.   Just keep the correct police out from under the
> > > seat cushion.  I even got fed up with the 6V system on my '46 A and
> > > converted it to 12V about 20 years ago. Now I can start it without
> > getting
> > > off and opening the petcocks.:-)
> > >
> > > Ron Cook
> > > Salix, IA
> > > On 7/5/2014 8:54 PM, Dean VP wrote:
> > > > I'm reading and responding to these emails via cell phone so I'm
> > > > doubly handicapped! -:)
> > > >
> > > > Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
> > > >
> > > > -----Original message-----
> > > > From: Mike <meulenms at gmx.com>
> > > > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > > <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > > Sent: Sun, Jul 6, 2014 01:19:17 GMT+00:00
> > > > Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re:  flooding in Saskatchewan and Manitoba
> > > >
> > > > Look at the nuts on the clamp bolts Dean, they are not even close to
> > > tight.
> > > >
> > > > Mike M
> > > > On 7/5/2014 7:30 PM, Dean VP wrote:
> > > >> You have much better eyes than I do if you can see the loose
> > > >> connections between the two batteries.  However, these are 6V
> > > >> batteries so they need
> > > > to
> > > >> be in Series to get the required 12V for the JD 620.
> > > >>
> > > >> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original message-----
> > > >> From: vschwartz1 at comcast.net
> > > >> To: Antique <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > >> Sent: Sat, Jul 5, 2014 22:56:42 GMT+00:00
> > > >> Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re:  flooding in Saskatchewan and Manitoba
> > > >>
> > > >> Ralph; Your reply made it to Central Missouri just fine although it
> > > >> did
> > > > come
> > > >> in after Janice and John's comment. I guess everyone is looking at
> > > >> the
> > > > John
> > > >> Deere 620 battery box and wondering who installed those batteries
> and
> > > >> cables. After I looked the second time I could see the short cable
> > > >> was not tight on either end as well as being on the wrong Posts for
> a
> > > >> 12 Volt set up. At this point I am assuming that a 620 John Deere
> > > >> should be 12 volt. I am thinking the battery cables were
> disconnected
> > > >> for long term storage and the guy who put it up for sale made an
> > > >> error
> > > in
> > > the connections.
> > > >> Gil
> > > >>
> > >
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