[AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor

Sat Sep 7 11:38:18 PDT 2013

Nothing in my inbox all week.... hope everyone is just busy with fall
harvest!
Ron

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Tom <tmartin at xtra.co.nz> wrote:

> Roosamaster injection pumps were the first with the fuel cooled
> solenoids back in the 50s.
> Sort of related but reversed, the fuel on my Jag runs through the
> air con to cool becuse of the high under hood temps of the 12.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>
> >________________________________
> > From: Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
> >To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 1:50 AM
> >Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor
> >
> >
> >This is very interesting.  I was wondering about whether the solenoid
> could
> >have a dual coil, one high-current to pull it in with high force, and one
> >low-current just to hold it in place.  I was planning to look around the
> >'Net and see if I could learn more about that.  But fuel flow cooling the
> >solenoid... learn something new every day!
> >
> >Somebody needs to tell Dave (is he still "Evil Dave"?) that this tractor
> >has no carb.
> >
> >SO
> >
> >
> >
> >On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 10:27 PM, <k7jdj at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hot solenoid was likely due to low fuel flow.  Higher fuel flow cools
> the
> >> solenoid.  Some of the JD tractors use a duel solenoid with a fancy
> control
> >> circuit.  Both solenoids pull the fuel on then one with much smaller
> >> current serves to hold the solenoid on.
> >>
> >> Gary
> >> Renton, WA
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Cecil R Bearden <crbearden at copper.net>
> >> To: Antique tractor email discussion group <
> at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> >> Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 7:09 pm
> >> Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor
> >>
> >>
> >> I Found IT!!!!!!!
> >>
> >> We have been over thinking this.   I  pressurized the tank again and
> >> this time removed the line at the sediment bowl.   Fuel barely
> >> trickled.   I then built a better connection to the fuel line and blew
> >> back to the tank.  Some pressure built up before I heard the blockage
> >> break loose.   Since I need the tractor, I will remove the tank later
> >> and find what was causing the blockage.   If this happens again, I can
> >> blow out the line.   I panicked because this was my only tractor left to
> >> use, and it has cost a fortune to repair in the past.  I know I had
> >> blown out the line earlier, but I did not have a good connection to the
> >> line to blow out the blockage.
> >>
> >> Thanks to everyone for the help.
> >>
> >> Cecil in OKla
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9/3/2013 1:21 PM, charlie hill wrote:
> >> > That makes sense Steve.  Thanks for the explanation.
> >> >
> >> > As for the injector issue.  Most injector systems have return lines
> >> > and if the injector is clogged or stuck the fuel that is supposed to
> go
> >> > to the engine is over pressurizing the return line.  I don't know
> enough
> >> > about it to know if it could cause a problem or not.  One would think
> >> that
> >> > would create an engine miss.
> >> >
> >> > I suspect most diesel mechanics would check the injection timing and
> pump
> >> > pressure  first but Cecil seems relatively sure that isn't the issue
> and
> >> the
> >> > heat in the solenoid surely sounds like it could be related.
> >> >
> >> > Charlie
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Stephen Offiler
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 1:49 PM
> >> > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> >> > Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor
> >> >
> >> > Greetings to you, too, Charlie... it's been a while!  I just re-joined
> >> > ATIS. (see below)
> >> >
> >> > A bad ground / bad connection has a higher than normal resistance, by
> >> > definition.  High resistance has the effect of reducing current flow
> in
> >> the
> >> > entire circuit.  The abnormal heat will be generated directly at that
> >> point
> >> > of high resistance.  That's why you see connectors melt or char
> >> sometimes.
> >> > The amount of heat generated is proportional to current squared times
> >> > resistance.  Since the resistance is reducing the current in the whole
> >> > circuit, the numerical value of current-squared drops quite sharply.
> If
> >> > the hypothetical bad ground / bad connection is directly within the
> >> > solenoid, then the solenoid might get hot.  But if it is elsewhere,
> even
> >> a
> >> > couple inches away, the reduced current flowing in the solenoid coil
> will
> >> > result in a cooler, not hotter solenoid.
> >> >
> >> > On another note, I thought the input from the Cat guy was
> interesting.  I
> >> > guess that is saying that an injector could fail in such a way that
> it is
> >> > injecting back into the supply line?
> >> >
> >> > Always a learning experience...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Best regards,
> >> > Steve O.
> >> >
> >> > PS:  I recently acquired a '57 John Deere 440 crawler/dozer.  Vertical
> >> > 2-cylinder, last in the line from M to 40 to 420 to 440 before they
> went
> >> to
> >> > the 1010.  Or so I am told!  It runs real well, sat in a barn out of
> the
> >> > weather for 10 years before I got it.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 1:20 PM, charlie hill
> >> > <charliehill at embarqmail.com>wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hi Steve, I really don't know.  You are more qualified to talk about
> >> that
> >> >> than
> >> >> me.  I was just wondering if a bad connection would increase the
> >> >> resistance in the circuit and cause it to heat.  Just a random
> thought
> >> >> really.
> >> >>
> >> >> You know what Farmer used to say,  check the grounds.
> >> >>
> >> >> Charlie
> >> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Stephen Offiler
> >> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 12:23 PM
> >> >> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> >> >> Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor
> >> >>
> >> >> I don't think a bad ground explains the excess heat in the solenoid,
> >> does
> >> >> it?
> >> >>
> >> >> SO
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 11:39 AM, charlie hill
> >> >> <charliehill at embarqmail.com>wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Cecil,  could it be as simple as a bad ground in the solenoid wiring
> >> not
> >> >>> allowing the
> >> >>> unit to open properly?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Charlie
> >> >>>
> >> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >> >>> From: Cecil R Bearden
> >> >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 11:12 AM
> >> >>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> >> >>> Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Talked to pump shop where I got pump 3 years ago.  They said they
> had
> >> >>> never had this type of problem with a fuel solenoid.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 9/3/2013 9:41 AM, Phil wrote:
> >> >>>> Cecil,
> >> >>>> Can you remove the shutdown solenoid and plug the hole? If it
> corrects
> >> >>>> the problem, then you know for sure.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Phil
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >>>>> From: "Cecil R Bearden" <crbearden at copper.net>
> >> >>>>> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group"
> >> >>>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> >> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 8:08 AM
> >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Help needed on non-antique tractor
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>> TS100 New Holland 2 WD tractor w/ 16x16 trans cab w/air loader
> >> >>> attached.
> >> >>>>>> Engine starts easily and seems to rev up to full throttle ok..
> When
> >> >>>>>> slightly loaded it begins to pull down and acts as if there is no
> >> >>>>>> governor available. Tractor has 2293 hours and uses no oil. I
> have
> >> >>>>>> replaced the fuel lift pump twice in last week and replaced
> filters.
> >> >>>>>> It
> >> >>>>>> has a Delphi inj pump installed at about 1550 hours. Tractor is
> >> >>> serviced
> >> >>>>>> and maintained regularly. When connected to 648 New Holland
> Baler,
> >> >>>>>> It
> >> >>>>>> will barely go up an incline when baling. When traveling in high
> >> >>>>>> gear
> >> >>> on
> >> >>>>>> roadway, it will pull down to 1500 RPM on slight incline. Works
> fine
> >> >>> for
> >> >>>>>> about 5 minutes after starting, then begins to have no power.
> After
> >> >>>>>> running about 30 minutes, I could lay my hand on the injector
> pump,
> >> >>>>>> but
> >> >>>>>> the fuel shutoff solenoid almost burned my finger.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> The fuel pump on this tractor was replaced, not rebuilt with a
> new
> >> >>>>>> Delphi pump 743 hours ago. I have kept the filters changed and
> the
> >> >>>>>> fuel
> >> >>>>>> clean, so I cannot believe the pump needs rebuilding unless the
> >> >> Delphi
> >> >>>>>> pump is a pile of crap to start with. The original pump self
> >> >>>>>> destructed
> >> >>>>>> at 1550 hours, requiring a new pump.   Pump shop stated the pump
> had
> >> >>>>>> been tampered with causing a bolt to beak internally.  The load
> is
> >> >> not
> >> >>>>>> excessive as the tractor was pulling the same load fine 2 days
> >> >>>>>> earlier.
> >> >>>>>> I have sealed all possible leaks around the primary filter, and
> find
> >> >>>>>> no
> >> >>>>>> wet spots when pressurizing the tank. Is it possible that the
> shut
> >> >> off
> >> >>>>>> solenoid is bad since it is getting hot. The shutoff solenoid is
> a
> >> >>>>>> plunger at the back of the pump near the distributor head. I am
> >> >>>>>> about
> >> >>> to
> >> >>>>>> pull the tank and check the intake line in the tank, it is all
> that
> >> >> is
> >> >>>>>> left.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> This is my only tractor left with a 1000 RPM PTO that can pull my
> >> >>>>>> swather and also has the electronic baler monitor attached...   A
> >> >>>>>> cat
> >> >>>>>> mechanic thought maybe an injector was pressurizing the return
> line
> >> >>>>>> causing the fuel solenoid to get hot.  It does not seem to be
> >> >> missing.
> >> >>>>>> It seems that all these problems started after I drained the fuel
> >> >> bowl
> >> >>>>>> in the primary sediment bulb.  I have sealed it totally now, so
> >> >> should
> >> >>>>>> not be the problem..
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Cecil in OKla
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
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