[AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor

Tue Sep 3 20:07:28 PDT 2013

That explains the hot solenoid a lot better than the Cat 
Mechanic.......   I got a response from the British Farming Forum that 
the TS series had some plastic shards from the fuel tank that would 
lodge in the line...

Cecil in OKla

On 9/3/2013 9:27 PM, k7jdj at aol.com wrote:
> Hot solenoid was likely due to low fuel flow.  Higher fuel flow cools the solenoid.  Some of the JD tractors use a duel solenoid with a fancy control circuit.  Both solenoids pull the fuel on then one with much smaller current serves to hold the solenoid on.
>
> Gary
> Renton, WA
>
>   
>
>   
>
>   
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cecil R Bearden <crbearden at copper.net>
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 7:09 pm
> Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor
>
>
> I Found IT!!!!!!!
>
> We have been over thinking this.   I  pressurized the tank again and
> this time removed the line at the sediment bowl.   Fuel barely
> trickled.   I then built a better connection to the fuel line and blew
> back to the tank.  Some pressure built up before I heard the blockage
> break loose.   Since I need the tractor, I will remove the tank later
> and find what was causing the blockage.   If this happens again, I can
> blow out the line.   I panicked because this was my only tractor left to
> use, and it has cost a fortune to repair in the past.  I know I had
> blown out the line earlier, but I did not have a good connection to the
> line to blow out the blockage.
>
> Thanks to everyone for the help.
>
> Cecil in OKla
>
>
>
>
> On 9/3/2013 1:21 PM, charlie hill wrote:
>> That makes sense Steve.  Thanks for the explanation.
>>
>> As for the injector issue.  Most injector systems have return lines
>> and if the injector is clogged or stuck the fuel that is supposed to go
>> to the engine is over pressurizing the return line.  I don't know enough
>> about it to know if it could cause a problem or not.  One would think that
>> would create an engine miss.
>>
>> I suspect most diesel mechanics would check the injection timing and pump
>> pressure  first but Cecil seems relatively sure that isn't the issue and the
>> heat in the solenoid surely sounds like it could be related.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Stephen Offiler
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 1:49 PM
>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>> Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor
>>
>> Greetings to you, too, Charlie... it's been a while!  I just re-joined
>> ATIS. (see below)
>>
>> A bad ground / bad connection has a higher than normal resistance, by
>> definition.  High resistance has the effect of reducing current flow in the
>> entire circuit.  The abnormal heat will be generated directly at that point
>> of high resistance.  That's why you see connectors melt or char sometimes.
>> The amount of heat generated is proportional to current squared times
>> resistance.  Since the resistance is reducing the current in the whole
>> circuit, the numerical value of current-squared drops quite sharply.  If
>> the hypothetical bad ground / bad connection is directly within the
>> solenoid, then the solenoid might get hot.  But if it is elsewhere, even a
>> couple inches away, the reduced current flowing in the solenoid coil will
>> result in a cooler, not hotter solenoid.
>>
>> On another note, I thought the input from the Cat guy was interesting.  I
>> guess that is saying that an injector could fail in such a way that it is
>> injecting back into the supply line?
>>
>> Always a learning experience...
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Steve O.
>>
>> PS:  I recently acquired a '57 John Deere 440 crawler/dozer.  Vertical
>> 2-cylinder, last in the line from M to 40 to 420 to 440 before they went to
>> the 1010.  Or so I am told!  It runs real well, sat in a barn out of the
>> weather for 10 years before I got it.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 1:20 PM, charlie hill
>> <charliehill at embarqmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Steve, I really don't know.  You are more qualified to talk about that
>>> than
>>> me.  I was just wondering if a bad connection would increase the
>>> resistance in the circuit and cause it to heat.  Just a random thought
>>> really.
>>>
>>> You know what Farmer used to say,  check the grounds.
>>>
>>> Charlie
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Stephen Offiler
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 12:23 PM
>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor
>>>
>>> I don't think a bad ground explains the excess heat in the solenoid, does
>>> it?
>>>
>>> SO
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 11:39 AM, charlie hill
>>> <charliehill at embarqmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cecil,  could it be as simple as a bad ground in the solenoid wiring not
>>>> allowing the
>>>> unit to open properly?
>>>>
>>>> Charlie
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Cecil R Bearden
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 11:12 AM
>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor
>>>>
>>>> Talked to pump shop where I got pump 3 years ago.  They said they had
>>>> never had this type of problem with a fuel solenoid.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 9/3/2013 9:41 AM, Phil wrote:
>>>>> Cecil,
>>>>> Can you remove the shutdown solenoid and plug the hole? If it corrects
>>>>> the problem, then you know for sure.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Cecil R Bearden" <crbearden at copper.net>
>>>>>> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group"
>>>>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 8:08 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Help needed on non-antique tractor
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TS100 New Holland 2 WD tractor w/ 16x16 trans cab w/air loader
>>>> attached.
>>>>>>> Engine starts easily and seems to rev up to full throttle ok.. When
>>>>>>> slightly loaded it begins to pull down and acts as if there is no
>>>>>>> governor available. Tractor has 2293 hours and uses no oil. I have
>>>>>>> replaced the fuel lift pump twice in last week and replaced filters.
>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>> has a Delphi inj pump installed at about 1550 hours. Tractor is
>>>> serviced
>>>>>>> and maintained regularly. When connected to 648 New Holland Baler,
>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>> will barely go up an incline when baling. When traveling in high
>>>>>>> gear
>>>> on
>>>>>>> roadway, it will pull down to 1500 RPM on slight incline. Works fine
>>>> for
>>>>>>> about 5 minutes after starting, then begins to have no power. After
>>>>>>> running about 30 minutes, I could lay my hand on the injector pump,
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> the fuel shutoff solenoid almost burned my finger.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The fuel pump on this tractor was replaced, not rebuilt with a new
>>>>>>> Delphi pump 743 hours ago. I have kept the filters changed and the
>>>>>>> fuel
>>>>>>> clean, so I cannot believe the pump needs rebuilding unless the
>>> Delphi
>>>>>>> pump is a pile of crap to start with. The original pump self
>>>>>>> destructed
>>>>>>> at 1550 hours, requiring a new pump.   Pump shop stated the pump had
>>>>>>> been tampered with causing a bolt to beak internally.  The load is
>>> not
>>>>>>> excessive as the tractor was pulling the same load fine 2 days
>>>>>>> earlier.
>>>>>>> I have sealed all possible leaks around the primary filter, and find
>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>> wet spots when pressurizing the tank. Is it possible that the shut
>>> off
>>>>>>> solenoid is bad since it is getting hot. The shutoff solenoid is a
>>>>>>> plunger at the back of the pump near the distributor head. I am
>>>>>>> about
>>>> to
>>>>>>> pull the tank and check the intake line in the tank, it is all that
>>> is
>>>>>>> left.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is my only tractor left with a 1000 RPM PTO that can pull my
>>>>>>> swather and also has the electronic baler monitor attached...   A
>>>>>>> cat
>>>>>>> mechanic thought maybe an injector was pressurizing the return line
>>>>>>> causing the fuel solenoid to get hot.  It does not seem to be
>>> missing.
>>>>>>> It seems that all these problems started after I drained the fuel
>>> bowl
>>>>>>> in the primary sediment bulb.  I have sealed it totally now, so
>>> should
>>>>>>> not be the problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cecil in OKla
>>>>>>>
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