[AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor

Sun Sep 8 19:31:16 PDT 2013

You came through loud and clear! Hurray

On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 12:29 AM, Mattias Kessén <davidbrown950 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Then something is wrong Witherspoon your inbox Italien has been quiet för
> som days but not a Week.
>
> Mattias
> Den 7 sep 2013 20:55 skrev "Gayle Chew" <gorrchew at gmail.com>:
>
> > Nothing in my inbox all week.... hope everyone is just busy with fall
> > harvest!
> > Ron
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Tom <tmartin at xtra.co.nz> wrote:
> >
> > > Roosamaster injection pumps were the first with the fuel cooled
> > > solenoids back in the 50s.
> > > Sort of related but reversed, the fuel on my Jag runs through the
> > > air con to cool becuse of the high under hood temps of the 12.
> > >
> > > Tom
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >________________________________
> > > > From: Stephen Offiler <soffiler at gmail.com>
> > > >To: Antique tractor email discussion group <
> > at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > >Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 1:50 AM
> > > >Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >This is very interesting.  I was wondering about whether the solenoid
> > > could
> > > >have a dual coil, one high-current to pull it in with high force, and
> > one
> > > >low-current just to hold it in place.  I was planning to look around
> the
> > > >'Net and see if I could learn more about that.  But fuel flow cooling
> > the
> > > >solenoid... learn something new every day!
> > > >
> > > >Somebody needs to tell Dave (is he still "Evil Dave"?) that this
> tractor
> > > >has no carb.
> > > >
> > > >SO
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 10:27 PM, <k7jdj at aol.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hot solenoid was likely due to low fuel flow.  Higher fuel flow
> cools
> > > the
> > > >> solenoid.  Some of the JD tractors use a duel solenoid with a fancy
> > > control
> > > >> circuit.  Both solenoids pull the fuel on then one with much smaller
> > > >> current serves to hold the solenoid on.
> > > >>
> > > >> Gary
> > > >> Renton, WA
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Cecil R Bearden <crbearden at copper.net>
> > > >> To: Antique tractor email discussion group <
> > > at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > >> Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 7:09 pm
> > > >> Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> I Found IT!!!!!!!
> > > >>
> > > >> We have been over thinking this.   I  pressurized the tank again and
> > > >> this time removed the line at the sediment bowl.   Fuel barely
> > > >> trickled.   I then built a better connection to the fuel line and
> blew
> > > >> back to the tank.  Some pressure built up before I heard the
> blockage
> > > >> break loose.   Since I need the tractor, I will remove the tank
> later
> > > >> and find what was causing the blockage.   If this happens again, I
> can
> > > >> blow out the line.   I panicked because this was my only tractor
> left
> > to
> > > >> use, and it has cost a fortune to repair in the past.  I know I had
> > > >> blown out the line earlier, but I did not have a good connection to
> > the
> > > >> line to blow out the blockage.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks to everyone for the help.
> > > >>
> > > >> Cecil in OKla
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On 9/3/2013 1:21 PM, charlie hill wrote:
> > > >> > That makes sense Steve.  Thanks for the explanation.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > As for the injector issue.  Most injector systems have return
> lines
> > > >> > and if the injector is clogged or stuck the fuel that is supposed
> to
> > > go
> > > >> > to the engine is over pressurizing the return line.  I don't know
> > > enough
> > > >> > about it to know if it could cause a problem or not.  One would
> > think
> > > >> that
> > > >> > would create an engine miss.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I suspect most diesel mechanics would check the injection timing
> and
> > > pump
> > > >> > pressure  first but Cecil seems relatively sure that isn't the
> issue
> > > and
> > > >> the
> > > >> > heat in the solenoid surely sounds like it could be related.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Charlie
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > > >> > From: Stephen Offiler
> > > >> > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 1:49 PM
> > > >> > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > >> > Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Greetings to you, too, Charlie... it's been a while!  I just
> > re-joined
> > > >> > ATIS. (see below)
> > > >> >
> > > >> > A bad ground / bad connection has a higher than normal resistance,
> > by
> > > >> > definition.  High resistance has the effect of reducing current
> flow
> > > in
> > > >> the
> > > >> > entire circuit.  The abnormal heat will be generated directly at
> > that
> > > >> point
> > > >> > of high resistance.  That's why you see connectors melt or char
> > > >> sometimes.
> > > >> > The amount of heat generated is proportional to current squared
> > times
> > > >> > resistance.  Since the resistance is reducing the current in the
> > whole
> > > >> > circuit, the numerical value of current-squared drops quite
> sharply.
> > > If
> > > >> > the hypothetical bad ground / bad connection is directly within
> the
> > > >> > solenoid, then the solenoid might get hot.  But if it is
> elsewhere,
> > > even
> > > >> a
> > > >> > couple inches away, the reduced current flowing in the solenoid
> coil
> > > will
> > > >> > result in a cooler, not hotter solenoid.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On another note, I thought the input from the Cat guy was
> > > interesting.  I
> > > >> > guess that is saying that an injector could fail in such a way
> that
> > > it is
> > > >> > injecting back into the supply line?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Always a learning experience...
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Best regards,
> > > >> > Steve O.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > PS:  I recently acquired a '57 John Deere 440 crawler/dozer.
> >  Vertical
> > > >> > 2-cylinder, last in the line from M to 40 to 420 to 440 before
> they
> > > went
> > > >> to
> > > >> > the 1010.  Or so I am told!  It runs real well, sat in a barn out
> of
> > > the
> > > >> > weather for 10 years before I got it.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 1:20 PM, charlie hill
> > > >> > <charliehill at embarqmail.com>wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> Hi Steve, I really don't know.  You are more qualified to talk
> > about
> > > >> that
> > > >> >> than
> > > >> >> me.  I was just wondering if a bad connection would increase the
> > > >> >> resistance in the circuit and cause it to heat.  Just a random
> > > thought
> > > >> >> really.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> You know what Farmer used to say,  check the grounds.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Charlie
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> >> From: Stephen Offiler
> > > >> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 12:23 PM
> > > >> >> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > >> >> Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> I don't think a bad ground explains the excess heat in the
> > solenoid,
> > > >> does
> > > >> >> it?
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> SO
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 11:39 AM, charlie hill
> > > >> >> <charliehill at embarqmail.com>wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>> Cecil,  could it be as simple as a bad ground in the solenoid
> > wiring
> > > >> not
> > > >> >>> allowing the
> > > >> >>> unit to open properly?
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>> Charlie
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> >>> From: Cecil R Bearden
> > > >> >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 11:12 AM
> > > >> >>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > > >> >>> Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>> Talked to pump shop where I got pump 3 years ago.  They said
> they
> > > had
> > > >> >>> never had this type of problem with a fuel solenoid.
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>>
> > > >> >>> On 9/3/2013 9:41 AM, Phil wrote:
> > > >> >>>> Cecil,
> > > >> >>>> Can you remove the shutdown solenoid and plug the hole? If it
> > > corrects
> > > >> >>>> the problem, then you know for sure.
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>> Phil
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>
> > > >> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> >>>>> From: "Cecil R Bearden" <crbearden at copper.net>
> > > >> >>>>> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group"
> > > >> >>>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > > >> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 8:08 AM
> > > >> >>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Help needed on non-antique tractor
> > > >> >>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>> TS100 New Holland 2 WD tractor w/ 16x16 trans cab w/air
> loader
> > > >> >>> attached.
> > > >> >>>>>> Engine starts easily and seems to rev up to full throttle
> ok..
> > > When
> > > >> >>>>>> slightly loaded it begins to pull down and acts as if there
> is
> > no
> > > >> >>>>>> governor available. Tractor has 2293 hours and uses no oil. I
> > > have
> > > >> >>>>>> replaced the fuel lift pump twice in last week and replaced
> > > filters.
> > > >> >>>>>> It
> > > >> >>>>>> has a Delphi inj pump installed at about 1550 hours. Tractor
> is
> > > >> >>> serviced
> > > >> >>>>>> and maintained regularly. When connected to 648 New Holland
> > > Baler,
> > > >> >>>>>> It
> > > >> >>>>>> will barely go up an incline when baling. When traveling in
> > high
> > > >> >>>>>> gear
> > > >> >>> on
> > > >> >>>>>> roadway, it will pull down to 1500 RPM on slight incline.
> Works
> > > fine
> > > >> >>> for
> > > >> >>>>>> about 5 minutes after starting, then begins to have no power.
> > > After
> > > >> >>>>>> running about 30 minutes, I could lay my hand on the injector
> > > pump,
> > > >> >>>>>> but
> > > >> >>>>>> the fuel shutoff solenoid almost burned my finger.
> > > >> >>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>> The fuel pump on this tractor was replaced, not rebuilt with
> a
> > > new
> > > >> >>>>>> Delphi pump 743 hours ago. I have kept the filters changed
> and
> > > the
> > > >> >>>>>> fuel
> > > >> >>>>>> clean, so I cannot believe the pump needs rebuilding unless
> the
> > > >> >> Delphi
> > > >> >>>>>> pump is a pile of crap to start with. The original pump self
> > > >> >>>>>> destructed
> > > >> >>>>>> at 1550 hours, requiring a new pump.   Pump shop stated the
> > pump
> > > had
> > > >> >>>>>> been tampered with causing a bolt to beak internally.  The
> load
> > > is
> > > >> >> not
> > > >> >>>>>> excessive as the tractor was pulling the same load fine 2
> days
> > > >> >>>>>> earlier.
> > > >> >>>>>> I have sealed all possible leaks around the primary filter,
> and
> > > find
> > > >> >>>>>> no
> > > >> >>>>>> wet spots when pressurizing the tank. Is it possible that the
> > > shut
> > > >> >> off
> > > >> >>>>>> solenoid is bad since it is getting hot. The shutoff solenoid
> > is
> > > a
> > > >> >>>>>> plunger at the back of the pump near the distributor head. I
> am
> > > >> >>>>>> about
> > > >> >>> to
> > > >> >>>>>> pull the tank and check the intake line in the tank, it is
> all
> > > that
> > > >> >> is
> > > >> >>>>>> left.
> > > >> >>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>> This is my only tractor left with a 1000 RPM PTO that can
> pull
> > my
> > > >> >>>>>> swather and also has the electronic baler monitor attached...
> >   A
> > > >> >>>>>> cat
> > > >> >>>>>> mechanic thought maybe an injector was pressurizing the
> return
> > > line
> > > >> >>>>>> causing the fuel solenoid to get hot.  It does not seem to be
> > > >> >> missing.
> > > >> >>>>>> It seems that all these problems started after I drained the
> > fuel
> > > >> >> bowl
> > > >> >>>>>> in the primary sediment bulb.  I have sealed it totally now,
> so
> > > >> >> should
> > > >> >>>>>> not be the problem..
> > > >> >>>>>>
> > > >> >>>>>> Cecil in OKla
> > > >> >>>>>>
> > > >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> > > >> >>>> AT mailing list
> > > >> >>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> > > >> >>> _______________________________________________
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