[AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor

Stephen Offiler soffiler at gmail.com
Wed Sep 4 06:50:14 PDT 2013


This is very interesting.  I was wondering about whether the solenoid could
have a dual coil, one high-current to pull it in with high force, and one
low-current just to hold it in place.  I was planning to look around the
'Net and see if I could learn more about that.  But fuel flow cooling the
solenoid... learn something new every day!

Somebody needs to tell Dave (is he still "Evil Dave"?) that this tractor
has no carb.

SO



On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 10:27 PM, <k7jdj at aol.com> wrote:

> Hot solenoid was likely due to low fuel flow.  Higher fuel flow cools the
> solenoid.  Some of the JD tractors use a duel solenoid with a fancy control
> circuit.  Both solenoids pull the fuel on then one with much smaller
> current serves to hold the solenoid on.
>
> Gary
> Renton, WA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cecil R Bearden <crbearden at copper.net>
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Tue, Sep 3, 2013 7:09 pm
> Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor
>
>
> I Found IT!!!!!!!
>
> We have been over thinking this.   I  pressurized the tank again and
> this time removed the line at the sediment bowl.   Fuel barely
> trickled.   I then built a better connection to the fuel line and blew
> back to the tank.  Some pressure built up before I heard the blockage
> break loose.   Since I need the tractor, I will remove the tank later
> and find what was causing the blockage.   If this happens again, I can
> blow out the line.   I panicked because this was my only tractor left to
> use, and it has cost a fortune to repair in the past.  I know I had
> blown out the line earlier, but I did not have a good connection to the
> line to blow out the blockage.
>
> Thanks to everyone for the help.
>
> Cecil in OKla
>
>
>
>
> On 9/3/2013 1:21 PM, charlie hill wrote:
> > That makes sense Steve.  Thanks for the explanation.
> >
> > As for the injector issue.  Most injector systems have return lines
> > and if the injector is clogged or stuck the fuel that is supposed to go
> > to the engine is over pressurizing the return line.  I don't know enough
> > about it to know if it could cause a problem or not.  One would think
> that
> > would create an engine miss.
> >
> > I suspect most diesel mechanics would check the injection timing and pump
> > pressure  first but Cecil seems relatively sure that isn't the issue and
> the
> > heat in the solenoid surely sounds like it could be related.
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Stephen Offiler
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 1:49 PM
> > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> > Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor
> >
> > Greetings to you, too, Charlie... it's been a while!  I just re-joined
> > ATIS. (see below)
> >
> > A bad ground / bad connection has a higher than normal resistance, by
> > definition.  High resistance has the effect of reducing current flow in
> the
> > entire circuit.  The abnormal heat will be generated directly at that
> point
> > of high resistance.  That's why you see connectors melt or char
> sometimes.
> > The amount of heat generated is proportional to current squared times
> > resistance.  Since the resistance is reducing the current in the whole
> > circuit, the numerical value of current-squared drops quite sharply.  If
> > the hypothetical bad ground / bad connection is directly within the
> > solenoid, then the solenoid might get hot.  But if it is elsewhere, even
> a
> > couple inches away, the reduced current flowing in the solenoid coil will
> > result in a cooler, not hotter solenoid.
> >
> > On another note, I thought the input from the Cat guy was interesting.  I
> > guess that is saying that an injector could fail in such a way that it is
> > injecting back into the supply line?
> >
> > Always a learning experience...
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Steve O.
> >
> > PS:  I recently acquired a '57 John Deere 440 crawler/dozer.  Vertical
> > 2-cylinder, last in the line from M to 40 to 420 to 440 before they went
> to
> > the 1010.  Or so I am told!  It runs real well, sat in a barn out of the
> > weather for 10 years before I got it.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 1:20 PM, charlie hill
> > <charliehill at embarqmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Steve, I really don't know.  You are more qualified to talk about
> that
> >> than
> >> me.  I was just wondering if a bad connection would increase the
> >> resistance in the circuit and cause it to heat.  Just a random thought
> >> really.
> >>
> >> You know what Farmer used to say,  check the grounds.
> >>
> >> Charlie
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Stephen Offiler
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 12:23 PM
> >> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> >> Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor
> >>
> >> I don't think a bad ground explains the excess heat in the solenoid,
> does
> >> it?
> >>
> >> SO
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 11:39 AM, charlie hill
> >> <charliehill at embarqmail.com>wrote:
> >>
> >>> Cecil,  could it be as simple as a bad ground in the solenoid wiring
> not
> >>> allowing the
> >>> unit to open properly?
> >>>
> >>> Charlie
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Cecil R Bearden
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 11:12 AM
> >>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> >>> Subject: Re: [AT] Fwd: Re: Help needed on non-antique tractor
> >>>
> >>> Talked to pump shop where I got pump 3 years ago.  They said they had
> >>> never had this type of problem with a fuel solenoid.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 9/3/2013 9:41 AM, Phil wrote:
> >>>> Cecil,
> >>>> Can you remove the shutdown solenoid and plug the hole? If it corrects
> >>>> the problem, then you know for sure.
> >>>>
> >>>> Phil
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "Cecil R Bearden" <crbearden at copper.net>
> >>>>> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group"
> >>>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 8:08 AM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] Help needed on non-antique tractor
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> TS100 New Holland 2 WD tractor w/ 16x16 trans cab w/air loader
> >>> attached.
> >>>>>> Engine starts easily and seems to rev up to full throttle ok.. When
> >>>>>> slightly loaded it begins to pull down and acts as if there is no
> >>>>>> governor available. Tractor has 2293 hours and uses no oil. I have
> >>>>>> replaced the fuel lift pump twice in last week and replaced filters.
> >>>>>> It
> >>>>>> has a Delphi inj pump installed at about 1550 hours. Tractor is
> >>> serviced
> >>>>>> and maintained regularly. When connected to 648 New Holland Baler,
> >>>>>> It
> >>>>>> will barely go up an incline when baling. When traveling in high
> >>>>>> gear
> >>> on
> >>>>>> roadway, it will pull down to 1500 RPM on slight incline. Works fine
> >>> for
> >>>>>> about 5 minutes after starting, then begins to have no power. After
> >>>>>> running about 30 minutes, I could lay my hand on the injector pump,
> >>>>>> but
> >>>>>> the fuel shutoff solenoid almost burned my finger.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The fuel pump on this tractor was replaced, not rebuilt with a new
> >>>>>> Delphi pump 743 hours ago. I have kept the filters changed and the
> >>>>>> fuel
> >>>>>> clean, so I cannot believe the pump needs rebuilding unless the
> >> Delphi
> >>>>>> pump is a pile of crap to start with. The original pump self
> >>>>>> destructed
> >>>>>> at 1550 hours, requiring a new pump.   Pump shop stated the pump had
> >>>>>> been tampered with causing a bolt to beak internally.  The load is
> >> not
> >>>>>> excessive as the tractor was pulling the same load fine 2 days
> >>>>>> earlier.
> >>>>>> I have sealed all possible leaks around the primary filter, and find
> >>>>>> no
> >>>>>> wet spots when pressurizing the tank. Is it possible that the shut
> >> off
> >>>>>> solenoid is bad since it is getting hot. The shutoff solenoid is a
> >>>>>> plunger at the back of the pump near the distributor head. I am
> >>>>>> about
> >>> to
> >>>>>> pull the tank and check the intake line in the tank, it is all that
> >> is
> >>>>>> left.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This is my only tractor left with a 1000 RPM PTO that can pull my
> >>>>>> swather and also has the electronic baler monitor attached...   A
> >>>>>> cat
> >>>>>> mechanic thought maybe an injector was pressurizing the return line
> >>>>>> causing the fuel solenoid to get hot.  It does not seem to be
> >> missing.
> >>>>>> It seems that all these problems started after I drained the fuel
> >> bowl
> >>>>>> in the primary sediment bulb.  I have sealed it totally now, so
> >> should
> >>>>>> not be the problem.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cecil in OKla
> >>>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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