[AT] gas problems--off topic now do to missinformation

[Dave Rotigel]

Drill Baby, DRILL!
	Dave
PS, End the welfare payments to BOTH oil and the farmers!

On May 10, 2013, at 9:24 PM, Jim & Lyn Evans wrote:

> Where do you get your information?  Subsidies on corn ethanol ended on 
> Jan 1, 2012.  Meanwhile, we subsidize big oil 10 billion to 52 billion 
> dollars per year! http://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-subsidies/
> Even when fully subsidized in 2011, the ethanol industry only received 
> around 6 billion dollars per year, a small fraction of what we give the 
> oil companies.
> Here is just the information for Exxon: (from 
> http://thinkprogress.org/tag/oil-subsidies/?mobile=nc)
> 
> ,Exxon is exempt from paying taxes 
> <http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/04/02/1810571/exxons-duck-killing-pipeline-doesnt-pay-taxes-to-oil-spill-cleanup-fund/>toward 
> the oil spill liability fund that helps clean up spills like in 
> Arkansas, where wildlife have been killed and covered by oil. The 1980 
> law exemption applies to diluted bitumen so companies escape paying the 
> 8-cents-per-barrel fee to the fund that helps clean up hundreds of 
> spills each year. At the federal level, Exxon's tax rate comes to only 
> 13 percent.
> 
> Here is how else Exxon spends its dollars, and what it receives in return:
> 
>    -- Exxon spent $12,970,000 on lobbying in 2012 to protect low tax
>    rates and block pollution controls and safeguards for public health.
>    In the first three months of 2013, Exxon spent$4.84 million lobbying
>    <http://disclosures.house.gov/ld/ldxmlrelease/2013/Q1/300563423.xml>.
> 
>    -- The company sent$3.6 million
>    <http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000129>in total
>    political contributions to PACs, candidates, and outside groups for
>    the 2012 election cycle, and 89 percent of contributions went to
>    Republicans. It has spentover $76,000
>    <http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals.php?id=D000000129&cycle=2012>for
>    the 2014 cycle so far.
> 
>    -- Exxon receives an estimated$600 million in annual federal tax
>    breaks
>    <http://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/green/report/2012/07/26/11880/romney-tax-plan-many-happy-returns-for-big-oil/#.UIf368y0-SA.email>.
>    In 2011, Exxon paid just 13 percent in taxes. The company paid no
>    federal income tax in 2009, despite $45.2 billion record profits.
> 
>    -- In the first quarter, Exxon bought back$5.6 billion of its stock
>    <http://www.exxonmobil.com/Corporate/Files/news_release_earnings_1q13.pdf>,
>    or 59 percent of its profit, which enriches the largest shareholders
>    and executives of the company.
> 
>    -- This year, Exxon CEO Rex Tillerson received a15 percent raise
>    <http://www.dallasnews.com/business/headlines/20130412-exxon-mobil-ceo-rex-tillerson-gets-15-percent-raise-to-40.3-million.ece>to
>    a $40.3 million salary.
> 
> 
> As for the energy imbalance, for years, ethanol is a net gain, and it 
> gets better each year: 
> https://www.extension.iastate.edu/agdm/articles/hof/HofJuly07.html
> 
> Since 2001:
> a. Natural gas energy required to produce a
> gallon of ethanol has fallen 28%.
> b. Electricity use is down 32%.
> c. The amount of ethanol produced per bushel
> of corn has increased to 2.8 gallons, up more
> than 5%.
> d. Water use has fallen to 2.7 gallons per gallon
> of ethanol, down 47% since 2001 and comparable to water use for gasoline 
> production.
> 11. Ethanol's energy balance is continually improving:
> 1 unit of energy invested in making ethanol
> yields up to 2.3 units of energy available for
> the consumer.
> 
> 
> 
> On 5/7/2013 9:48 PM, charlie hill wrote:
>> Ed,  I know I'm wasting my time but I'm going to say it anyway.
>> It takes more BTU's of fossil fuel to create a gallon of ethanol than the
>> ethanol produces.  Also, recent data from the US Government state
>> that the US among the largest reserves of oil, gas and coal of any country
>> on the planet and more than enough to sustain our economy well into the next
>> century.  National Security my ass.  Our deal leader just won't let us drill
>> for what we have here.
>> 
>> You'll get no argument from me about sugar, dairy and beef.  In fact the
>> largest part of
>> USDA budget by far is Food Stamps.  The current administration has turned
>> the USDA
>> into a second department of health and human services.  A big welfare
>> program.  That does
>> not change the fact that the biggest lobby pushing ethanol subsidies is the
>> farm lobby.
>> I'm not against ethanol.  I'm against using natural gas and oil to make
>> ethanol out of corn
>> in order to keep the price of corn up.  Ethanol can NOT survive in the
>> market as a fuel without a federal
>> subsidy.
>> 
>> Find a way to make ethanol from switch grass or wood chips or algae or
>> whatever and fuel the process
>> with waste heat from other manufacturing operations and you'll get no
>> argument from me but as long
>> as you are burning oil from third world countries to make ethanol with the
>> net effect of using more fuel
>> and raising the price of fuel and commodities for everyone I'm against it.
>> For the record I own a farm
>> and was raised on the farm and have been directly involved in or dependent
>> on agriculture for 62 years
>> and 8 months.
>> 
>> You are right.  Some peoples opinions are based on misinformation.   those
>> would be YOURS.
>> 
>> Charlie
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Edchainsaw at aol.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2013 10:04 PM
>> To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> Subject: Re: [AT] gas problems--off topic now do to missinformation
>> 
>> we have used ethanol since  the beginning as well  no problems  here.. over
>> 35yrs.
>> we had problems with the lead addatives they separated in fuel and caked.
>> maybe that's you guys problems? I know lots of suppliers  still add that
>> junk!
>> 
>> as for ethanol beeing  just  a  BIG AG deal NO!  its  not..  its a US
>> SECURITY ISSUE!   we get how much of our oil from  the middle east?   and
>> did
>> you know  Brazil gets most of  its fuel from Ethanol!
>> 
>> I take very much acception to the comments of uneducated people on the
>> topic of farm profitability and the ag budgets ...   especially the
>> "FEEDING
>> OFF THE GOVERNMENT TROUGH"   you people do not even know  half.
>> 
>> the Farm partion of the Ag budget costs each person in the USA $1.   there
>> are so many things in the ag budget NOT farm related its  horrific.
>> 
>> did you sugar, cotton,  and yes Beef and Dairy are all parts of the  FARM
>> portion.
>> 
>> some peoples optinions are based on  missinformation
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