[Ford-ferguson] [Ford-Ferguson] 9N reverse engineering

Tue May 7 17:12:58 PDT 2013

I think you missed a few years - Ford and Dearborn Motors made a Lot of
equipment and purchased New Holland BEFORE they sold out to Fiat.

On Tue, 7 May 2013 11:20:56 -0400 Jack Tractor Live
<jacktractor at live.com> writes:
> The Henry Ford Museum displays one of the Brown-Ferguson Model As 
> next to
> one of the prototype Ford-Ferguson System 9Ns. It is pretty obvious 
> they are
> father and son. The sale of Ford Tractor to Fiat leads to very 
> little Ford
> equipment newer than the experimental 9N being displayed at the 
> Henry Ford.

What you are saying here is there was no 8N, no NNA, No
600-800-700-900-500, Many MANY 4digit numbers before Fiat?.

> 
> One of the problems with the Brown-Ferguson was that it was 
> expensive to
> manufacture. Part of the handshake agreement was to produce a 
> tractor that
> was both very good and attractively priced. Perhaps reverse 
> engineering is
> the wrong term since it implies copying piece by piece. Maybe 
> competitive
> analysis is a better one. Clearly part of the Ford emphasis was to 
> use parts
> that Ford were already manufacturing as much as possible. Clearly 
> there are
> improvements. 

What you don't seem to know is that the Ferguson 3 point would not work
on the 9N until the Ford engineers modified the Effusion Control system.
The root cause was the Brown Ferguson had steel wheels while the 9N had
rubber. The Ferguson design was not fast enough to compensate for tire
deflection.
Also when the hand shake broke down, Ferguson was stealing the drawings
for the 9N and ended up making the TO20 and 30 in Canada from those
drawings. That is why you will find Ford and Ferguson rear ends or
transmissions or engines bolted together with each other today.

The 9N has a PTO, fenders, cleaner look, etc.
> 
> A man within 5 miles of me owns a 1936 experimental Ford model. It 
> has
> narrow front, a V8 engine, and an automotive looking front grill. 
> Clearly,
> Ford wasn't getting anywhere on their own on re-entering the US 
> market. I
> lost photos of it in a hard disk crash but I may see it again.
>  
> I actually know a man who worked in Ford Tractor spare part sales 
> and
> distribution after leaving the US Military at the end of WW2.
> 
> Having worked in the Rouge in the recent past, I am interested in 
> exploring
> the connections to the 9N and Fordson F.
> 
> In the metro Detroit area, many people will say they work or worked 
> for
> "Fords", rather than "Ford".
> 
> The Legacy Quarterly issue mentioned actually details an account of 
> the
> Massey organization borrowing a new New Holland baler from a dealer 
> who sold
> both brands so they could analyze the design as part of developing 
> their own
> baler.
> 
> Regardless of whether you are a Ford or a Ferguson supporter, and 
> clearly I
> lean towards the latter in the matter of tractors, the Ford-Ferguson
> alliance took Ford from having little presence in the US tractor 
> market to
> being a world player. It did much the same for Ferguson. There seems 
> to be
> of a tendency among some to downplay Harry Fergusons' role in the
> development of the modern tractor.

You are correct that Ferguson played a major role in the modern tractor -
However he was getting nowhere in England, and if old Henry would have
turned him down we would still have each make of tractor having it's own
system for mounted equipment. Don't forget - the hand shake agrement was
- Ford, you make em, and I'll sell them. If old Henry would have made
junk, old Harry wouldn't have been able to sell them.
ALSO remember that Ferguson tractors did not have position control and
live hydrauliics until the TO35

> 
> In the year 2013, Massey Ferguson is a tractor brand sold around the 
> world.
> You can actually buy a new Massey Ferguson that is very close in 
> design to a
> 9N.

NOW that is real let down!!!!!!!

> 
> [Mike Sloane] From everything I have ever heard about the Ford N, 
> that story
> is completely untrue. The only part of the Ford N that came from 
> Ferguson
> was the three point hitch system; everything else (good or bad) came 
> from
> the Ford engineers. But I could be wrong.

You could be wrong - see above

> 
> [Jack Tractor] The April 2013 edition of Massey Harris Ferguson 
> Legacy
> Quarterly  contains a continuation of the Harry Ferguson's Black 
> Tractor
> article. The article mentions that one of the Brown-Ferguson Model 
> As
> brought  to the US were disassembled and reverse engineered into the 
> N
> Series  at the Rouge complex.
> 
> www.legacyquarterly.com
> 
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> 

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