[AT] Off Topic, Logging property

Sun Sep 23 06:13:19 PDT 2012

Didn't someone once say "Those who give up their liberty for security live in KA and vote for OBAMA"?
	Dave

On Sep 23, 2012, at 7:15 AM, charlie hill wrote:

> I think Mr. Jefferson made the definitive statement on this subject a few 
> hundred years ago.  Unfortunately we didn't listen well.
> 
> "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of 
> patriots and tyrants. ... God forbid we should ever be twenty years without 
> such a rebellion; what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers 
> are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of 
> resistance?  Let them take arms." -- Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens 
> Smith, 1787
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Mike Meulenberg
> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 12:44 AM
> To: at
> Subject: Re: [AT] Off Topic, Logging property
> 
> But therin lies the problem Grant, you see the old trees once established 
> have figured out how to pass rules in the forest to make sure they never get 
> pruned. They take fruit and seeds from some plants, and distribute them to 
> other plants and animals in the forest, making sure those plants and animals 
> know that the old trees where responsible for their freebies. Now when it 
> comes time to get pruned guess who is seen as too valuable to prune? Why of 
> course it's the old trees who provide for all the other plants animals of 
> the forest, with things that don't belong to them in the first place. Mike M
> 
> 
> ----- Receiving the following content ----- 
> From: Grant Brians
> Receiver: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Time: 2012-09-21, 11:54:35
> Subject: Re: [AT] Off Topic, Logging property
> 
> 
> Every so often a
> massive pruning is just smart. When did we have a massive pruning last???? I
> look forward to that happening, but also a society of law is not Socialism,
> it is a functioning society.
>       Grant Brians
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com]On Behalf Of Dave Rotigel
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 4:22 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] Off Topic, Logging property
> 
> 
> You mean that in KA there are still some areas where an individual still has
> the freedom to use their personal property as they see fit? This is NOT
> GOOD! VOTE OBAMA and and MORE socialism!
>  Dave
> PS, "Land of Fruits and Nuts"? Now I understand!
> 
> On Sep 19, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Grant Brians wrote:
> 
>> Here in California we have two basic classes of forest - those in areas
>> where there are controls enforced and those where the controls are not.
> The
>> Santa Cruz Mountains near us are one of the areas that are managed forests
>> that the timber companies only harvest in ways that are sustainable and
>> everyone involved KNOWS that the plan will be followed. On the other hand,
>> even though plans are required for any forests, here in my county, there
> are
>> people that just indiscriminately cut down the old growth oak and pines
> and
>> assume the state's foresters will not catch them or will just admonish
> them.
>> I know of one rancher that is a terrible offender like this, but so far
> the
>> forester has not been able to prove that the rancher is the one doing the
>> work because the forester covers an area about the size of Sweden....
>> Firewood collection is something that is needed from some of our
>> forests to assure the larger trees make it to harvest maturity because of
>> the low precipitation levels of much of California. But at the same time
>> intelligence is CLEARLY needed to retain the soils (nearly all forest in
>> California is on hillsides or mountainsides, much of which exceeds 30%
>> grades and some as much as 75%) and to keep the proper mix of plants to
>> support wildlife and control erosion. Some states do not require forest
>> management plans, but thankfully we do - the lack thereof in past times
> led
>> to spectacular flood events and property and habitat destruction, we
> learned
>> the hard way and with many lawyers and insurance companies involved....
>> Grant Brians
>> Hollister,California Vegetable, Fruit and Nuts farmer
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com]On Behalf Of Mattias Kessen
>> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 1:47 PM
>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>> Subject: Re: [AT] Off Topic, Logging property
>> 
>> 
>> You Americans never seize to surprise. No offense but is it common to own
>> forest without a plan and harvest often for firewood. I'm beginning to
>> question my understanding of the English language and I know little about
>> modern forest industry here but... I'm surprised. I've always thought
>> forest to be a long term investment. Once again no offense I'm aware that
>> our societies are very different and can't be compared therefor (which is
>> very apparent when you read most Swedish newspapers reporting from USA,
>> using our standards for you is absurd as the other way around).
>> I think I've got to pour me another whisky here in the sauna and read more
>> of Arto Paasilinnas great authorship.
>> 
>> Mattias
>> Den 17 sep 2012 16:22 skrev "Mark Greer" <markagreer at embarqmail.com>:
>> 
>>> You need to create a "Timber Management Plan". This involves having a
>>> qualified forester advise/help you develop a plan for your woodlot's
>>> specific conditions and your specific intentions for it. You will
>> inventory
>>> and value trees which have good potential and then develop a plan to help
>>> them reach that potential at a faster rate. This involves Timber Stand
>>> Improvement (TSI) work which may include selective thinning around crop
>>> trees, trimming/removing grape vines, selective harvesting for timber,
>>> etc., etc. It is an ongoing process but can be financially very much
> worth
>>> your while. Your local Ag Extension service would be one place to start
>>> looking for this information to get started. Pennsylvania DCNR is also a
>>> good place to start looking for information.
>>> 
>>> http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/privatelands.aspx
>>> 
>>> An active Timber Management plan is a must for land owned where you plan
>>> to sell timber some day. The tax ramifications of not having a documented
>>> working plan can make it not worth selling timber because you stand to
>> lose
>>> so much of a sale to taxes. By inventorying and valuing the trees at the
>>> time of land purchase and then looking at the difference in value at the
>>> time of sale, you can count a sale as a capital gain and only owe the
>> lower
>>> capital gains tax rate on the difference (the capital gain) vs. just
>>> selling timber and paying the higher income tax rate on the WHOLE sale.
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yes, I think I'm going to contact an un-biased forester and create a
>>> logging
>>> plan.
>>> 
>>> Hopefully we will follow the plan and there will be no surprises in the
>>> family.
>>> 
>>> Thank you everybody for the information.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> Will
>>> SE PA
>>> 
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