[AT] ATIS members

Dave Rotigel rotigel at me.com
Fri Nov 9 04:20:44 PST 2012


Worth MUCH more than I paid for it Ken. LOTS of good ideas for all of us in what you say--THANKS!
	Dave

On Nov 8, 2012, at 11:18 PM, Ken Knierim wrote:

> Ben,
>    I did small engine repair while I went through electronics school
> ('82-'84 timeframe), and I now run a small business in electronics. Here's
> my take on it: (beware; this got rather long. feel free to hit delete)
> 
> Cleanliness is cannot be overstressed! Pressure washers, air hoses,
> cleaning equipment, whatever it takes. You can't find problems you cannot
> see for the gunk.
> 
> As others have pointed out, when it comes to 2-stroke engines, carbs are
> cheaper than labor these days. Replace whenever possible. Otherwise, get a
> can of carb cleaner, keep it fresh, and get a new seal kit with each carb
> and replace the diaphrams. They die and make 'em impossible to start.
> Replace fuel lines wherever feasible.
> 
> Learn the method to starting a 2-cycle and follow it. It'll save your arms!
> (primer until the bulb feels different if equipped, full choke and
> throttle, pull it until you hear a pop, go to half choke, pull it once or
> twice more and it should be running. choke off as it warms up.)
> 
> I used to use WD-40 as starting fluid for 2-strokes. Now it's useless for
> that. I've started using carb cleaner but it's not as easy on the engines.
> Ether is bad for 2-strokes because of how it thins down the oil. Find
> something that works for you.
> 
> Get access to small engine repair websites. briggsandstratton.com is your
> friend. Type in the engine codes, get an exploded view and order the parts
> as required. Get yourself set up to order parts. Get tools. I highly
> recommend the flywheel pulling tools from B&S if you work on those. others
> exist depending on makes and configs. Seeing what the tools look like in
> the manuals, which you'll want to build an archive of (electronic archive
> these days), may help you find them at swap meets, etc. Better yet, if you
> find an old timer that's hanging up his tools, see if you can work a deal
> with him or her. Another one is to use forums like this as a resource.
> There are a LOT of really good people out there that like to help when
> there is an appreciative student.
> 
> Go to a reputable small engine repair shop and figure out what they charge
> for prices to open something up, etc. Use this as your pricing guideline.
> You can knock it down a little but SE repair is usually cutthroat. Find out
> the going rates and stay competitive or you'll wish you had.
> 
> Don't cheap yourself. If you have a customer that just wants to cheap the
> repair, they're probably going to whine when it doesn't run like a new
> unit. No sense in loosing money AND having a whiney customer about it. The
> ones that want to pay for a quality repair generally understand what it
> takes and are better to deal with (general rule, but people are people). If
> they want to "save" money on something and not put in a new spark plug or
> carb kit or whatever (parts are cheaper than labor!), they may be telling
> you they don't think your time is worth anything. Learn to deal with this,
> be gentle but firm about pricing. Know where the nearest lowball competitor
> is and offer to send them there. You want the business that pays you to do
> what you love. It'll rarely pay well, but you DO want to make SOMETHING
> because tools, parts, buildings and food all cost money.
> 
> Try and get yourself a fleet to work with; steady work is a steady
> paycheck, even if you're just changing oil, sharpening blades and cleaning
> filters. I did it as part of a lawn service company in Phoenix. Repairs
> generally do better when economic times are rough, new sales are generally
> better when things are moving along. You may need to repower old equipment
> when the engines are too beat up and it's cheaper to put a new one on
> instead. We had several decks (mower frames of the push variety) that would
> wear out an engine every 6 months with daily oil changes, filter cleanings
> and blade sharpenings. The problem was the carb throttle shafts, not the
> engines themselves.
> 
> If you tear a Briggs down and have to go into the bottom end and it's going
> on something that gets daily usage, don't. Scrap it; it's not worth it.
> Similar with other makes, but you get the gist. If the bottom end is worn
> or abused, the unit is probably not worth keeping on life support as
> something else is about to go too. If you're putting a warranty on your
> work, these basket cases WILL cost you. Do you and your customer a favor...
> scrap the engine and find a replacement.
> 
> If you can convert the breaker point engines to electronic ignition (kits
> used to exist; I haven't looked for them lately but they are WORTH it!) you
> might consider it.
> 
> Cheap fuel ISN'T. Put the highest grade pump gas in these beasts and they
> run better. 92 Octane is cheap insurance. Recommend it to folks using power
> equipment. "Oh, but it's too expensive!" Horsepucky! One recalcitrant
> starting engine can rapidly turn into a warranty call as fuel never gets
> better when it's in the tank. Start as good as you can, use a fuel additive
> (Sta-Bil has treated me well) and tell them to run it out before they park
> the engine (they won't, but at least you told them when they bring it back
> in 6 months or a year)
> 
> Little things like stocking a few fuel bulbs, gas caps, common carb kits,
> air filters, oil and whatnot can be profitable. If customers know you stock
> it or can get it, they will tell others. Do something wrong, and they will
> tell a LOT MORE others though. Apologizing for poor quality really bothers
> me, so I strive to get it RIGHT that much harder.
> 
> Older engines are enjoyable but the market is a lot smaller than the newer
> stuff (at least in AZ). Most of it was designed to be throw away
> (especially 2-stroke stuff), but many manufacturers put a lot of thought
> into making the engines serviceable and maintainable. They make money off
> parts and do know how to support the engines.
> 
> The biggest thing is, enjoy it. Take something that's been neglected, tear
> it down, clean it up, and make it purr and there is a sense of
> accomplishment. If you treat it as a hobby that's done with profit in mind
> (while you keep another job), you might be able to build up a decent
> clientele and not starve.
> 
> If you're going to go after restoration thoughts, you will likely end up
> going a different direction. I'm a big fan of American Restoration on
> History Channel. What they do is different and may be more to your liking.
> It can also be profitable from the look of things... once you get that
> reputation. To get there, you probably need to have a wider skill-set than
> average... in addition to making the engine run, you have to beat the dents
> out of the sheet metal, sandblast the rust off, put a couple shiny coats of
> paint on it, polish the brass and then find a buyer. There ARE a few more
> steps to that path, and each will require refinement. I'm stuck in the
> "make the engine run" phase, which I tend to like the best.
> 
> Just my thoughts, and worth what you paid for it. I wish you well in your
> endeavors and if I can help, well, let me know.
> 
> Ken in AZ
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Nov 7, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Ben Wagner <supera1948 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Here's one of the younger folks in love with his antique machines!
>> 
>> I think one of the better ways to get my generation involved in antiques
>> is to be ready to answer all the stupid questions you have heard for the
>> twentieth time.  I know you folks on the list have been exemplary at
>> that for me when I worked through my first restoration, and I know you
>> still are for others, as well as when I get in a bind!
>> 
>> On another note, I plan to be working with antiques for a long time.  I
>> received a reputation as "that guy who works on those old magnetos and
>> hand cranked engines" among mechanics and "that guy who bothers me every
>> week about Grandpa's tractor behind the barn" among everyone else.  As a
>> result, I am starting a small business working on antique equipment, and
>> buying/repairing/restoring/selling anything old with an engine I can
>> find.  Any advice is still (and will be) greatly appreciated!
>> 
>> Thanks for all your help through the years I have read and asked too
>> many questions.  Even though I haven't posted much, reason standing that
>> I still think of myself as too inexperienced to talk, I have enjoyed
>> quietly learning from all of your knowledge.
>> 
>> If ever anyone is in the Shenandoah Valley of VA, drop by and say hello!
>> 
>> Ben Wagner
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/7/2012 9:49 AM, Cecil R Bearden wrote:
>>> I was looking at Mike Sloane's albums of the atis members.   I feel like
>>> I know you guys even though we have never met in person.   I just did
>>> not realize how many years we had been "talking" on this list.   I also
>>> am concerned about what we are going to do about getting more younger
>>> folks involved in this hobby or just working with tractors.   I
>>> personally will have tractors around until I can no longer move.
>>> However, I have lately gravitated toward my tractors with the cab.  I
>>> used the 930 Case to sow wheat this time just because I live to drive
>>> it.  The steering gear started to lock up, I hope I can use the parts
>>> from the 900 Case I have for parts. Here in OK, thewind is always 15 to
>>> 25 gusting to 35.  When it is below 50 deg. riding a tractor is cold.
>>> At 90 deg and upward to 110 as this summer was, that  can dry you out
>>> real quick.  The cab on the Belarus tractors is good because you can
>>> open the doors and all the windows.  The NH TS110 just has an air
>>> conditioner that cools to 60 deg..    With the thoughts of skin cancer
>>> from sun exposure, I am going to use the cab tractors.
>>> Cecil in okla
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
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