[AT] OT Hydrocarbon Refrigerant

[charlie hill]

Larry, a leak at the ice plant in a town near here was discovered about 2 AM 
Monday morning when a passing police officer smelled the ammonia.  Most of 
the old ice plants around here are still running ammonia systems.  I guess 
they are grandfathered in somehow as I doubt the government would let you 
build one today.  The one here in this town got in such bad shape a few 
years ago that they tore it down and didn’t replace it.  I suspect that 
might have had more to do with good highways and the economy of trucking 
than anything else.

Charlie

-----Original Message----- 
From: Larry Goss
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 10:33 AM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] OT Hydrocarbon Refrigerant

Right.  You can use almost anything for refrigerant.  Some are better than 
others, and easier on the environment.  My father worked in refrigeration 
design for years.  His first patent was for the sintered bronze motor 
bearings that made hermetically-sealed refrigeration systems possible.  That 
was in 1928 when GE was getting geared up to produce the "monitor top" 
domestic refrigerator.  Many, many years later, I talked with him about the 
various things that could be used as a refrigerant.  He lamented the fact 
that the industry ever got away from ammonia systems. I complained and said, 
"But it stinks!"  He said, "Yeah, but you at least know when you have a 
leak, and it's a whole lot easier on the environment."

In other news, I see this morning's headlines saying that GE is expanding 
refrigerator production in Louisville, and will be hiring 350 new employees.

Larry

----- Original Message -----
From: k7jdj at aol.com
To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 9:00:45 AM
Subject: Re: [AT] OT  Hydrocarbon Refrigerant

I know nothing about A/C but my son is using propane for refrigenant.  Works 
great.  I understand that propane is used in Europe.

Gary

Renton, WA



-----Original Message-----
From: Cecil R Bearden <crbearden at copper.net>
To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:19 am
Subject: Re: [AT] OT  Hydrocarbon Refrigerant



OK, I know this is off topic, but if I donh't have A/C in the tractors
and trucks this summer, I won't be able to drive these antique tractors.

I also have heard all the arguments about  HC refrigerants being unsafe
and all that other crap.   I have tried to research the web about folks
experience with these and every time I find something relevant the
thread is hijacked by some all-knowing guru who keeps flaming the person
for using something other that what the politicians and the Dupont owned
EPA has dictated.   SO, Dont start with the safety etc CRAP.. I have
heard and read it all.

I have used Red Tek for years but it has been on capillary tube or
orifice tube systems.   I recently had problems with my 94 Dodge Van
with rear air not cooling.  It would get 70 deg, but not lower.  It used
to blow 40deg air on 134A.    I pumped it down and added ES-12A, the
same thing as Red Tek, and I would get a sweating suction line, but only
68deg air in a 98deg outside temp.   gauge readings were 175 to 200 high
and 35 on the low.   I changed the expansion valve and drier and got the
same  results.   I then changed the compressor and recharged without
pumping down the system as was described in some notes on ES-12A
(Envirosafe Website)  I got about 205 -210 high side and 35 to 40 low,
with 100 deg outside air and working in the shade ( My outdoor shop).
At 205 to 210 high side, the gauge needle was fluttering or vibrating
madly from 195 to 215.  If I lowered the pressure by letting some
refrigerant out, it would quit fluttering at 195.   I did not have any
sweating on the suction line this time, and the air was 70 deg out the
vent.  I might add that the vent temp was the same front and rear.   The
systems are connected in parallel, so if one exp valve is bypassing,
then that is probably the high pressure reached.   I varied the amount
of refrigerant etc, but cannot get anything lower than 70 deg out the
vent.   I have opened the evaporator box, and made sure I have a clean
evaporator to get the max air flow.

I contacted Enviro safe tech who suggested that the expansion valve was
causing the flutter and allowing refrig to bypass at a lower pressure
than needed to get a full refrigerant =coverage on the evaporator.
Since the front and rear are connected in parallel, you cannot easily
determine which valve is the problem.   I replaced the front.

Any suggestions.    I used the ES-12A because the price of 134A has
gotten expensive.

Cecil in OKla

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