[AT] OT Low water crossings

Dave Merchant kosh at ncweb.com
Fri Feb 10 11:55:44 PST 2012


Reminds me of this video...

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=SteamCrane#p/f/27/wyVIVHJ5RUA

Real time!

Dave Merchant


At 01:28 PM 2/10/2012, you wrote:
>Carl that is why I said to put head walls or wing walls off the end of the
>pipe.  I guess I didn't explain well enough.  He needs a bulkhead on each
>end of the pipe then fill in the middle and concrete over the top.  It's
>perfectly fine to do the whole thing with concrete but concrete isn't cheap
>and unless you seal the ends down into the stream bed the water will still
>get under and either undermine or lift the slab.  The idea is to make the
>water flow over the entire structure and hold it down.  Yes, the fill must
>be compacted tight and contained.   Head walls would be straight and
>parallel to the road.  Wing walls would angle out into the earth along side
>the stream at an angle to the stream and the road.   Probably the easiest
>way to do it is with bags of concrete mix.  Stack them like sand bags around
>either end of the pipe, drive rebar through them and into the ground.  Spray
>them down with water and leave them be for a few days until the concrete
>gets hard.  Then form the roadway between them with concrete or a
>combination of fill and concrete.  The concrete bags at the bottom of the
>stack need to be dug down into the ground on either side of the stream until
>the bottom of the trench is level with or slightly below the invert (bottom
>of) the ditch/creek.
>
>There are dozens of ways to do it.  Admittedly, in my construction career I
>was generally doing such work with other people's money and they were
>usually companies that could afford to and required
>us to do it right.  That doesn't mean there isn't an easier way to do it
>that would be serviceable.  I just don't like to build something twice.
>
>Charlie
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Carl Gogol
>Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 12:48 PM
>To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>Subject: Re: [AT] OT Low water crossings
>
>In this application there is a high probability of compacted fill washing
>out as the design intent is to allow very high water levels to still go over
>the top - isn't it?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: charlie hill
>Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 7:45 AM
>To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>Subject: Re: [AT] OT Low water crossings
>
>
>
>Don,  I can't really help you other than to say that if you use a culvert
>made for road crossings the manufacturer should be able to tell you how
>much cover it requires for a given load.  Dirt is cheaper than concrete.
>Depending on the circumstance I'd be looking at building a "head wall" or
>"wing wall"  of the ends of the culvert.  That could be wood timbers,
>concrete, stacked bags of concrete mix, sand bags, rip rap or a number of
>things.
>Then with the culvert set in place I'd want an appropriate amount of
>compacted fill on top as Cecil suggested.  You can cut down on the amount of
>fill required (the depth of the fill) by using geotextile fabric (see this
>site http://geotextile.com/downloads/PropexLL507.pdf for an example).
>If there is a road contractor near you he might have a small amount on the
>end of a roll, a remnant,  you can get to do your job.  When all  that
>is done you can pave the road surface with 4 to 6" of concrete depending on
>how well your subsurface is compacted and gross weight of vehicles
>you expect to come down your road.
>
>Someone spoke about the strength of concrete.  That is true.  You can get
>concrete with compressive strength generally from 2500 psi to 5000 psi.
>However,  the concrete that is used on highways and runways is typically
>classified by flexural strength rather than compressive strength.  The
>difference is that the "flex" concrete has a high amount of "entrained air"
>(air bubbles in it) to allow the concrete to flex under the load.  That
>concrete
>is typically classified by terms like 450 Flex or 550 flex.  With all that
>said I don't think that is anything you need to concern yourself with.  For
>what you are doing I'd probably use something like 4000 psi concrete with
>fiber added and I'd have them mix it dry and add plasticizer to make it flow
>easier with a lower water content.
>
>That's about the best my memory will allow.  If your local concrete yard
>only handles driveways and house footings they might not even know about
>"flex"
>concrete anyway.  Oh, as for the added fiber, you can get that now as
>fiberglass fiber or a sort of plastic fiber.  I've never used the new
>plastic fiber but I hear it
>works well.  The fiberglass fiber is tough stuff and helps reduce cracking.
>It also cuts down on or eliminates the amount of reinforcing wire mesh or
>rebar you need to use in the
>concrete.
>
>Hope that helps some.
>
>Charlie
>
>
>
>
>On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Don Bowen <don.bowen at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > My driveway crosses two little creeks.  They are usually dry except
> > during storms when they can be as much as four feet deep.  After a storm
> > it may take days for them to come down.  The first crossing is gravel
> > and the previous owner had build a concrete and rock dam on the
> > downstream side to control washouts.  The result kept the water over a
> > foot deep for days after a small rain.  I cut a slot in the dam and now
> > it drains down to about 6 inches in a day.
> >
> > The second crossing is a concrete low water bridge with two culverts.
> > usually within a few hours of a rain the water is under the concrete
> > flowing though the culverts.  The problem here is that the culverts plug
> > with gravel in heavy rains.  The reason is that who ever built the
> > crossing has the outlet end of the culverts higher than the inlet by
> > several inches.
> >
> > I plan to take out the culverts and replace them with a single larger
> > culvert properly installed.  What I need to know is how thick the
> > concrete must be above a given size of pipe.  I am assuming that the
> > larger the culvert diameter the thicker the slab over it must me.
> >
> > As for the gravel crossing I want to build a concrete crossing.  I need
> > to know what I need to do and references.  I have a good idea what is
> > needed but I would like comments from those with experience.
> >
> > You can see in this picture the right culvert is plugged.  The water at
> > the inlet is almost at the top of the culvert.
> > http://www.braingarage.com/Dons/Travels/journal/May%2011/images/flowing.jpg
> >
> > This is what it looks like after a heavy rain.
> > 
> http://www.braingarage.com/Dons/Travels/journal/April%2011/images/flooded%20drive.jpg
> >
> > And a heavier rain.
> > 
> http://www.braingarage.com/Dons/Travels/journal/April%2011/images/flooded%20drive.jpg
> >
> > The gravel crossing after a rain before I opened up the dam a
> > 
> little\http://www.braingarage.com/Dons/Travels/journal/January%2011/images/summer.jpg
> >
> >
> > --
> > Don Bowen           KI6DIU
> > http://www.braingarage.com/Dons/Travels/journal/Journal.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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Dave Merchant
kosh at ncweb.com
kosh at nesys.com
dmerchant at layerzero.com

http://www.nesys.com
http://www.nesys.org
YouTube: SteamCrane




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