[AT] OT Low water crossings

Fri Feb 10 04:48:02 PST 2012

Dave shame on you posting that link.

It cost me three hours of my time.  I had to watch the other movies in 
that group. One was an hour long.  ;-}

On 2/10/2012 1:55 PM, Dave Merchant wrote:
> Reminds me of this video...
>
> http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=SteamCrane#p/f/27/wyVIVHJ5RUA
>
> Real time!
>
> Dave Merchant
>
>
> At 01:28 PM 2/10/2012, you wrote:
>> Carl that is why I said to put head walls or wing walls off the end of the
>> pipe.  I guess I didn't explain well enough.  He needs a bulkhead on each
>> end of the pipe then fill in the middle and concrete over the top.  It's
>> perfectly fine to do the whole thing with concrete but concrete isn't cheap
>> and unless you seal the ends down into the stream bed the water will still
>> get under and either undermine or lift the slab.  The idea is to make the
>> water flow over the entire structure and hold it down.  Yes, the fill must
>> be compacted tight and contained.   Head walls would be straight and
>> parallel to the road.  Wing walls would angle out into the earth along side
>> the stream at an angle to the stream and the road.   Probably the easiest
>> way to do it is with bags of concrete mix.  Stack them like sand bags around
>> either end of the pipe, drive rebar through them and into the ground.  Spray
>> them down with water and leave them be for a few days until the concrete
>> gets hard.  Then form the roadway between them with concrete or a
>> combination of fill and concrete.  The concrete bags at the bottom of the
>> stack need to be dug down into the ground on either side of the stream until
>> the bottom of the trench is level with or slightly below the invert (bottom
>> of) the ditch/creek.
>>
>> There are dozens of ways to do it.  Admittedly, in my construction career I
>> was generally doing such work with other people's money and they were
>> usually companies that could afford to and required
>> us to do it right.  That doesn't mean there isn't an easier way to do it
>> that would be serviceable.  I just don't like to build something twice.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Carl Gogol
>> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 12:48 PM
>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>> Subject: Re: [AT] OT Low water crossings
>>
>> In this application there is a high probability of compacted fill washing
>> out as the design intent is to allow very high water levels to still go over
>> the top - isn't it?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: charlie hill
>> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 7:45 AM
>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>> Subject: Re: [AT] OT Low water crossings
>>
>>
>>
>> Don,  I can't really help you other than to say that if you use a culvert
>> made for road crossings the manufacturer should be able to tell you how
>> much cover it requires for a given load.  Dirt is cheaper than concrete.
>> Depending on the circumstance I'd be looking at building a "head wall" or
>> "wing wall"  of the ends of the culvert.  That could be wood timbers,
>> concrete, stacked bags of concrete mix, sand bags, rip rap or a number of
>> things.
>> Then with the culvert set in place I'd want an appropriate amount of
>> compacted fill on top as Cecil suggested.  You can cut down on the amount of
>> fill required (the depth of the fill) by using geotextile fabric (see this
>> site http://geotextile.com/downloads/PropexLL507.pdf for an example).
>> If there is a road contractor near you he might have a small amount on the
>> end of a roll, a remnant,  you can get to do your job.  When all  that
>> is done you can pave the road surface with 4 to 6" of concrete depending on
>> how well your subsurface is compacted and gross weight of vehicles
>> you expect to come down your road.
>>
>> Someone spoke about the strength of concrete.  That is true.  You can get
>> concrete with compressive strength generally from 2500 psi to 5000 psi.
>> However,  the concrete that is used on highways and runways is typically
>> classified by flexural strength rather than compressive strength.  The
>> difference is that the "flex" concrete has a high amount of "entrained air"
>> (air bubbles in it) to allow the concrete to flex under the load.  That
>> concrete
>> is typically classified by terms like 450 Flex or 550 flex.  With all that
>> said I don't think that is anything you need to concern yourself with.  For
>> what you are doing I'd probably use something like 4000 psi concrete with
>> fiber added and I'd have them mix it dry and add plasticizer to make it flow
>> easier with a lower water content.
>>
>> That's about the best my memory will allow.  If your local concrete yard
>> only handles driveways and house footings they might not even know about
>> "flex"
>> concrete anyway.  Oh, as for the added fiber, you can get that now as
>> fiberglass fiber or a sort of plastic fiber.  I've never used the new
>> plastic fiber but I hear it
>> works well.  The fiberglass fiber is tough stuff and helps reduce cracking.
>> It also cuts down on or eliminates the amount of reinforcing wire mesh or
>> rebar you need to use in the
>> concrete.
>>
>> Hope that helps some.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Don Bowen<don.bowen at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>> My driveway crosses two little creeks.  They are usually dry except
>>> during storms when they can be as much as four feet deep.  After a storm
>>> it may take days for them to come down.  The first crossing is gravel
>>> and the previous owner had build a concrete and rock dam on the
>>> downstream side to control washouts.  The result kept the water over a
>>> foot deep for days after a small rain.  I cut a slot in the dam and now
>>> it drains down to about 6 inches in a day.
>>>
>>> The second crossing is a concrete low water bridge with two culverts.
>>> usually within a few hours of a rain the water is under the concrete
>>> flowing though the culverts.  The problem here is that the culverts plug
>>> with gravel in heavy rains.  The reason is that who ever built the
>>> crossing has the outlet end of the culverts higher than the inlet by
>>> several inches.
>>>
>>> I plan to take out the culverts and replace them with a single larger
>>> culvert properly installed.  What I need to know is how thick the
>>> concrete must be above a given size of pipe.  I am assuming that the
>>> larger the culvert diameter the thicker the slab over it must me.
>>>
>>> As for the gravel crossing I want to build a concrete crossing.  I need
>>> to know what I need to do and references.  I have a good idea what is
>>> needed but I would like comments from those with experience.
>>>
>>> You can see in this picture the right culvert is plugged.  The water at
>>> the inlet is almost at the top of the culvert.
>>> http://www.braingarage.com/Dons/Travels/journal/May%2011/images/flowing.jpg
>>>
>>> This is what it looks like after a heavy rain.
>>>
>> http://www.braingarage.com/Dons/Travels/journal/April%2011/images/flooded%20drive.jpg
>>> And a heavier rain.
>>>
>> http://www.braingarage.com/Dons/Travels/journal/April%2011/images/flooded%20drive.jpg
>>> The gravel crossing after a rain before I opened up the dam a
>>>
>> little\http://www.braingarage.com/Dons/Travels/journal/January%2011/images/summer.jpg
>>>
>>> --
>>> Don Bowen           KI6DIU
>>> http://www.braingarage.com/Dons/Travels/journal/Journal.html
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> AT mailing list
>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>> _______________________________________________
>> AT mailing list
>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AT mailing list
>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AT mailing list
>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AT mailing list
>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> Dave Merchant
> kosh at ncweb.com
> kosh at nesys.com
> dmerchant at layerzero.com
>
> http://www.nesys.com
> http://www.nesys.org
> YouTube: SteamCrane
>
> _______________________________________________
> AT mailing list
> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>