[AT] More on the water pump
charlie hill
charliehill at embarqmail.com
Mon Nov 15 21:07:23 PST 2010
Larry no one is talking about "jerry-rigged". I'm talking about mechanics
that are too stupid to figure out the problem and replace oh let's say 3
sensors, 4 fuel injectors and an intake plenum before they figure out that
the problem was a hole in a vacuum line. I'm also not talking about
warranty work. I personally don't care how many new parts they put on
something they are fixing under warranty. I'm talking about when you go to
a shop and the mechanic is too stupid or lazy to try and fix the problem and
just throws expensive parts at it until he gets lucky and fixes the problem
by accident. All the while he has his mind on getting his drag car tuned up
for Saturday night and pads your bill to pay for the new part(s) he needs
for the race car. Maybe that doesn't happen where you are but it sure
happens here. I can tell you LOTS of war stories about it. Here's one
great example:
Lynn bought a Buick new in '97. While it was under warranty it started
having a foul odor come out of the air conditioner ducts. It smelled like
sweaty socks. The dealership that works on it advertizes every day here on
radio that they have the most highly trained Buick, Cadillac, GMC service
department in NC and how they exceed GM requirements for certifications by
400% or some such number. I took the car to them. They "fixed it" and told
me they sprayed the air conditioning ducts with something to kill the odor
(that was the fix). Well they didn't fix it and soon the heater duct was
filling up with condensed water and running out on the floor. There was so
much condensation that it was starting to build up on the back face of a
plastic cover over some dash board mounted instrument lights. I took it
back and asked them to fix it and to check the condensation behind that
clear plastic dash panel. I went back to get it. They told me it was
fixed. I asked about the condensation and the service writer snapped back
at me "that's not condensation... THAT's MOISTURE. It still wasn't fixed.
I took it back and talked to the head service manager. When I went back
to get it he came out and talked to me and told me he had found a service
bulletin on it and had placed a "delay relay" on the AC fan to make it run
after the AC fan cut off to dry the ducts. What he did was take an old
relay that makes the radiator fan come on after a car has been turned off to
cool down the cooling system and mount it on the fender with the wire tucked
into the AC Duct. He didn't fix anything. He just stuck that up there to
"satisfy" me and get me to leave. That was on about the 4th or 5th trip.
I had finally gotten tired of fooling with them so I didn't say a word. I
just pretended to buy his line of BS and took the car home, drove it
straddle a ditch, crawled under it, took a piece of wire and pulled the AC
system drain nipple down like it was supposed to be. It had somehow gotten
tucked up like an "inny" navel instead of hanging down like it should. I
knew from the beginning that the problem was with that drain and had told
them so. I don't know what kind of game they were trying to play. After I
fixed it I never took it back to them again. I have the "delay relay"
laying right here on the floor beside me right now. I keep it as a
reminder. I know both of the owners of that dealership and consider them
to be friends but their service dept is a total fraud.
NOW that was a factory dealer and under warranty. The independent shops
around here are even worse. The ones that do know how to work on new cars
with sophisticated electronic systems are too interested in what they can
charge you to look for a problem. (replacing an intake plenum pays better by
the book than replacing a vacuum line). The small, old school shops that do
honest work, the guys you call "shade tree mechanics" don't have the
equipment or training to diagnose the problems. I'm not an idiot or a
complainer but I have the good sense to know when I'm getting ripped off.
Want another example of factory dealer work? I had an 89 GMC pickup that
was about 3 months old. It started blowing out water. The dealer replaced
a head gasket under warranty and did a good job of it with one exception. I
left his shop and got about 5 miles when the serpentine belt flew off.
Luckily it didn't hurt anything. I put it back on and limped back to the
dealer. I had to get the service manager and the mechanic out let me show
them the shims they had left out behind the power steering bracket. The
pulley was cocked around probably 5 degrees or more and they couldn't see
it. When they put it back the head back on and put it back together they
left them out. The service manager couldn't even see the problem after I
pointed it out to him.
Want another example of an independent shop? How about replacing 4 AC Delco
iridium spark plugs as part of other work. It was a six cyl car. Don't ask
me why they didn't replace the other two but that's beside the point. I
think they were too hard to get to. The shops bill had a breakdown for
parts and a separate break down for labor. Under the parts break down I
could read on the carbon copy he gave me where he had changed the price of
the 4 spark plugs from $38. 40 to $58.40 and finally to $88.40. Again this
was the cost of the parts. The labor was charged separate. The plugs at
the time sold new at the factory dealer (I called two) for $7.60 each so I
guess he changed the 0 to an 8 but I could tell that on the carbon. I can
buy them from the dealer for list less 30% so I know he can too. I don't
mind him making money on them. He has to but when you write in a price and
then kick it up by 20 bucks and then by 30 more bucks that is just theft.
When I looked at the bill I said "those are some expensive spark plugs".
He mumbled something and walked off. I paid him and left. It only cost me
$50 bucks to find out he was a thief. I considered myself lucky. The rest
of the parts were correctly priced. I'm willing to bet he did that to pay
for some part he wanted from the dealer for his race car.
To tell you the truth I wish I could tell you about the time I took a car to
a shop around here and got the work done right the first time at a
reasonable (not cheap just reasonable) price but I can't. Heck I'd settle
for getting it done right and forget about the cost. You are probably
reading this thinking I'm just a complainer that can't be satisfied.
Nothing could be further from the truth. What I am is a guy that knows
enough about the work I'm getting done to know when I'm getting ripped off.
Charlie
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Larry Goss" <rlgoss at insightbb.com>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:04 PM
To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Subject: Re: [AT] More on the water pump
> That's an interesting commentary, Charlie. I suspect that it's fairly
> typical of how people view modern-day repair work, but if a shop is doing
> warranty work as a dealer, their hands are tied. They don't have the
> flexibility do anything except replace "field replaceable units" to put
> the item back in its original condition. Any work other than that may not
> be reimbursed by the company. The "shade tree mechanic" work that we all
> do on our tractors has been systematically phased out of existence. We
> can bemoan our current condition, but when you need warranty service on
> your late model car or truck, you will want the repair to be done right
> and free of charge, not jerry-rigged.
>
> Larry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: charlie hill <charliehill at embarqmail.com>
> Date: Monday, November 15, 2010 21:45
> Subject: Re: [AT] More on the water pump
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>
>> David you are lucky to have a dependable mechanic these
>> days. Particularly
>> one that knows how to work on modern stuff at a reasonable
>> price. Most of
>> them now just throw expensive parts at it until it's fixed and
>> charge by the
>> rate book for each part regardless if it was needed or fixed the
>> problem.
>> Charlie
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "David Bruce" <davidbruce at yadtel.net>
>> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 4:54 PM
>> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group"
>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> Subject: Re: [AT] More on the water pump
>>
>> > Yes for the MF and it did include a new pulley. Not
>> upset with the
>> > price overall and I was surprised it was in stock.
>> >
>> > While I was out I took the car in for service. The check
>> engine light
>> > was on and the mechanic had read and reset it a couple
>> times. This time
>> > a full blown diagnostic - $5 piece of vacuum hose with a
>> pinhole. $75
>> > total bill. Just the nature of these more complex
>> engines I guess.
>> >
>> > He has been my mechanic for about a decade now and I have
>> always been
>> > happy with the work. I feel I can depend on his opinion.
>> >
>> > David
>> > NW NC
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 11/15/2010 4:06 PM, charlie hill wrote:
>> >> Yeah I think I got a good deal. Mine was new too but I
>> don't know how
>> >> long
>> >> the fellow had it in stock. $95 probably isn't
>> bad. It's for your MF
>> >> isn't
>> >> it? That's a little different pump from the one on the
>> AC tractors. I'm
>> >> not surprised at that price.
>> >>
>> >> --------------------------------------------------
>> >> From: "David Bruce"<davidbruce at yadtel.net>
>> >> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 3:34 PM
>> >> To: "Antique tractor email discussion
>> >> group"<at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> >> Subject: [AT] More on the water pump
>> >>
>> >>> Charlie Hill I was almost right when I said probably double
>> in price
>> >>> from the $45 you remembered - $95 but it was in stock and
>> new not
>> >>> remanufactured. Was expecting it to be an order item
>> but wasn't that
>> >>> bothered as the rain got here a day early - old time shade
>> tree work
>> >>> here. I figured if it was an order item I could have
>> it by Wed. which
>> >>> is supposed to be clear once again.
>> >>>
>> >>> David
>> >>> NW NC
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