[AT] Farmall H wide front end

Thu Apr 1 05:04:07 PDT 2010

Actually, universities have done a bunch as well, should be out there
somewhere. I've seen the wreckage of a Farmall 504 that the UW tried to roll
as a demonstration. The narrow front end dug in instead. The tractor broke
up into several chunks,  most of the large castings cracked and came apart.

-----Original Message-----
From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Dean Van Peursem
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 11:58 PM
To: 'Antique tractor email discussion group'
Subject: Re: [AT] Farmall H wide front end

Guy,

I agree this is a very complex issue and one that is also very dependent on
how the weight is
distributed on the tractor. A WFE changes the dynamic of the response to a
bump experienced on one
front tire similar to what a JD Roll-O-Matic does on a narrow front end.
Forward speed also changes
the dynamic.  However, I would think most roll-overs are caused either by
speed or a serious bump(or
hole) on one of the rear tires or a combination of the two while on a severe
slope.  I would suspect
this dynamic is significantly different between a front engine type tractor
vs a rear engine type
tractor (Farmall vs JD in the 30's, 40, 50's.  I'd hate to think of how many
independent and
dependant variables would have to be in the equation to model actual
conditions. My son has a
Doctorate in Physics and I think he would have to work on this for quite
some time just to get
reasonably close. The amount of free rotation available on the wide front
end would be a significant
variable in the equation and then when the WFE rotation hits its limit would
also be a major element
in the equation. Thinking about trying to solve this problem mathematically
makes my head spin. I
suspect the tractor companies probably did some empirical research on this
but it probably is well
hidden or has been destroyed. 

Dean VP
Apache Junction, AZ

"It takes two to speak truth -- one to speak and another to hear." - Henry
David Thoreau

-----Original Message-----
From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf
Of Guy Fay
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:03 PM
To: 'Antique tractor email discussion group'
Subject: Re: [AT] Farmall H wide front end

I'll side with Dave on this one, although you need more than a high school
physics book. Tractor rollovers are more complex events than they seem.
Larger diameter front wheels can make a big difference in reducing impacts
that can initiate rollovers. As noted, the length of the moment arm also
reduces impacts.

As I've explained to airline pilots before, weights, balances, and angles
are only part of the story.

-----Original Message-----
From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of David Rotigel
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 2:09 PM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] Farmall H wide front end

You might want to refer back to your HS Physics book before you  
discredit this particular "old wives tale!"
	Dave

On Mar 29, 2010, at 12:05 PM, Bruce Moden wrote:

> Thanks Mike,
> In all my years of tractors I never owned or drove a NFE tractor but  
> had always resisted having one because of the old wives tales about  
> easier turn overs.  Maybe I'll leave this one narrow if it is an  
> easy fix, 'cause it's going to be a parade tractor if I get it  
> finished!!!
> Bruce
>
> --- On Sun, 3/28/10, Mike Sloane <mikesloane at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: Mike Sloane <mikesloane at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [AT] Farmall H wide front end
> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com

> >
> Date: Sunday, March 28, 2010, 1:32 PM
>
>
> This has been discussed in the past, but some folks are new to this
> discussion: a wide front end provides little or no protection from a
> roll-over compared to a narrow front end. Once one of the rear tires
> leaves the ground, there is a very good chance you are going over,
> narrow or wide. The reason for this is that the wide front axle pivots
> only about a foot higher than the narrow front end. Unlike a car or
> truck, there is no resistance to a roll-over from the front tires -  
> once
> the axle reaches the limit of its movement, it is too late.
>
> The main reasons for going to a wide front are 1. a better ride on  
> rough
> ground and 2. only two tracks through the soil vs. three. What you  
> give
> up is 1. mechanical simplicity and 2. tighter turning circle. I also
> like being able to tuck narrow front tractors into the limited space  
> in
> my shed by parking them nose to nose. But that's just my personal  
> view.
>
> Mike
>
> Bruce Moden wrote:
>> Bob, The wobble is probably the driving force in the decision,
>> however my farm has a few hillside trails, creeks & ditches, so the
>> roll-over factor is part of the concern. thanks for the suggestions.
>> Bruce
>>
>> --- On Sun, 3/28/10, Robert L. Holtzer <rholtzer at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
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