[Ford-ferguson] Massey Ferguson 178 Diesel

John Maddock agtronixjv at southcom.com.au
Mon Sep 22 04:37:26 PDT 2008


Hullo Chris

My guess is that the 2 stage clutch you mention would have been standard,
with the hydraulic PTO clutch an option.

Re the grinding noise when you push the clutch all the way down, a couple
of thoughts.

1. The clutch on my 135 was replaced many years ago with an updated
version.  Ever since, it grinds if I push the pedal too far down.  I
suspect that the release fork is being pushed too far & is hitting the
clutch adjustment bolts Or similar. Your problem might be similar.  To
test, try engaging the PTO as you slowly push the clutch down.

2. The fact that you can engage the PTO with the engine stopped suggests
that (a) you do not have the hydraulic clutch, and (b) the PTO clutch
plate is not disengaging when it should. No suggestions at this stage as
to how you can test this other than to pull it apart. Not a job one would
tackle without good cause!

The hydraulic PTO clutch is driven by the same gear pump which drives the
MultiPower clutch.  The PTO lever is in the same place as the mechanical
PTO but simply operates an internal hydraulic valve.  Foward engages,
rearward movement disengages.  You engage without stopping the tractor or
reducing engine revs, although this can be a bit severe if you are using a
lot of horsepower via the PTO.

Since this PTO pump is driven by a gear on the PTO shaft, you can
disengage and engage the hydraulic PTO with the clutch in the normal
manner.

Another test for the presence of the hydraulic clutch is to turn the PTO
shaft by hand with the engine stopped & the lever in both positions.  If
it is mechanical, you will not be able to turn it when it is in gear.  If
hysraulic, you might be able to turn it no matter what position the lever
is, since the hydraulic clutchpack will not be engaged.  On the 148, there
is a brake pad which rubs against the outside of the clutch pack.  This is
supposed to prevent the PTO turning when the lever is not engaged. 
Unfortunately, this does not work on my 148 if the oil is cold & thick.

Re Multi- Power.  Your obsevations are correct: in LO, you have NO ENGINE
BRAKING.  In my view a bad design feature, but I suppose there was not
much choice.  If the MF engineers had designed a solid connection in both
HI and LO, they might have had many wrecked transmissions on their hands
as folks used a switch to LO instead of brakes.

As I remember, Multi-power was introduced in about 1959 in the second
version of the MF65. It most certainly is a trap for young players, but
once you understand its limitation you will find it a great thing.  I use
it all the time on everyday work, but find it especially useful when
baling hay.

Re fenders - can't help with that, I'm afraid.

Re manuals - I have the loose-leaf workshop manual for the 135, but only
some sections also cover the 165 and 175.  The 148, 168,178 and 188 were
released after it was published.

I've found a few refs on the www for my 168 but not much of value. Parts
should be readily available in UK and here since it is still a common
tractor, if you have difficulty there.  I'm guessing it will be early 70s.

JV
PS where are you located?  I'm on a family farm just south of Hobart
Tasmania.  Enter Kingston Tasmania in Google Earth.

> Thanks for the reply,
>
>      I have a problem with the PTO on my 178.  It was my impression that
> the engine clutch was a two stage clutch.  The first position
> stopping the transmission and all the way down stopping the PTO.  I
> bought an I & T Manual No. MF-29 for the 175,  and there is no
> mention of the clutch being two staged,  but it does show info the
> the IPTO (Independant PTO)  From what I can gather from that,  it is
> a hydraulic operated PTO clutch..   All I know for sure is that with
> the clutch all the way down,  the shifter for the PTO just grinds..
> If I kill the engine,  engage the PTO and then start the tractor it
> will turn.
>
>      My tractor has the 'Multi-Power' switch on the dash.  I was mowing
> with it and much to my suprise,  when I started down a hill the
> tractor freewheels down the hill.  When I shift it to the High range
> it stays in gear on the hill.  Is this normal?  (I am assuming that
> forward on the multi power switch is high and back is low based on
> the tractor speed)
>
>      Those are my two main issues.  I would also like to replace the
> fenders and buy all the manuals for it.  (So far Ebay has been the
> best source I have found)  So if you could point my in the direction
> of people the deal with the 178 I would appreciate it.
>
>      I took some picutres of it today,  so I will try to upload them to my
> Fotki site and post a link later tonight.
>
>                  Thanks in advance for the help!
>
>                         Chris
>
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 9/21/08, John Maddock <agtronixjv at southcom.com.au> wrote:
>
>> From: John Maddock <agtronixjv at southcom.com.au>
>> Subject: Re: [Ford-ferguson] Massey Ferguson 178 Diesel
>> To: "Ford-Ferguson mailing list"
>> <ford-ferguson at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> Cc: ford-ferguson at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> Date: Sunday, September 21, 2008, 3:14 PM
>> G'day Chris
>>
>> The 178 is the later version of the 175, and as I
>> understand it was
>> introduced to provide slightly higher horsepower and a 4x2
>> (i.e. 8 speed)
>> gearbox. Sold in Aus & NZ as well as UK
>>
>> I've got a 135, 148 and a 168 so I've got a tad of
>> experience.  What do
>> you need to know?
>>
>> JV
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > Hello All,
>> >
>> >       I am new to this list,  but some of you may have
>> seen me on the John
>> > Deere lists..
>> >
>> >        I have recently bought myself a Massey Ferguson
>> 178 Diesel.  I am
>> > told that is is the same thing as a 175 only made for
>> the UK
>> > market.  I am searching for a source of good
>> information on it and
>> > also looking to work some quirks out of the tractor.
>> >
>> >                        Chris
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>>
>>
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