[AT] OT: Gas story - now thermo

Fri Jul 6 08:36:58 PDT 2007

I read an article 15-20 years ago, about a farmer in IA or NE, he ran 1000
plus feet of 6 or 8 inch field tile down about 6 feet. One end rose to
ground level where he had cover over it similar to a salt feed where the
wind moved it to pick up a breeze.  The other end went to the furnace, he
claimed he had approximately 56-58 degree air he was heating or cooling,
depending on time of year .. yeah I think it should work, I always wanted to
try it, just never had the space.
Paul Waugh - IN

-----Original Message-----
From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of charlie hill
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 8:54 AM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Gas story

I've been toying with an idea for a modified geothermal heat pump.
Instead of an underground cooling loop or water source how about an 
underground air shaft to provide near constant temp air to a conventional 
heat pump?

What I had in mind was a few hundred feet of corrugated plastic pipe (maybe 
8" or so) burried 8 or 10 feet deep with the ends feeding into some sort of 
enclosure for the conventional heat pump that would allow the stabilized 
ground temp air to flow too the heat pump and the hot air comming off of the

heat pump to be exhausted to the outside.  It's a plan without any of the 
details worked out.  Does anyone think it might work?

Charlie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "George Willer" <gwill at gwill.net>
To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'" 
<at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Gas story

> Jerry,
>
> We have more in common than I thought.  We both have extensive experience
> with Overhead Doors, and now I find the common experience with ground 
> source
> heat pumps.
>
> If people knew more about them they'd be much more popular than they are.
>
> George Willer
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [mailto:at-
>> bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Rhodes
>> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 1:17 PM
>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>> Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Gas story
>>
>> Well, time for my dime, Rick you are right. I retired from the Navy in 
>> 75'
>> got a job with a Co (Insource Data Inc)from the windy city, funded by U 
>> of
>> WI to do ground temp taking. We drilled down to 3, 5 an 7 meters to
>> measure
>> temps for 24 hours in 7 locations ( Fargo, ND, Marshall MN, Fort Dodge 
>> IA,
>> Normal IL, Marion IN, Lansing MI, Marion OH, New Castle PA an Hazelton 
>> PA)
>>
>> The diffance in temps was about 4 deg at 59 degs..hi 62 degs an low 56
>> degs.. this was done in June of 77' and again in 82'.( paid better in 
>> 82',
>> more travel money)
>>
>> We found out that this data was to be used by a Thermal Eng Co in
>> installing
>> under ground heating/cooling system.
>>
>> Enjoyed the work, so your data is right the temp is normally constant
>> below
>> 25 feet.
>>
>> Jerry NW Ohio
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Rick Weaver" <Rick_Weaver at hilton.com>
>> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-
>> tractor.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 11:15 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Gas story
>>
>>
>> > Good morning!
>> >
>> > This debate got me to try to research this question because I was under
>> > the impression that not too far below ground (at least just a few feet)
>> > that it stayed constantly 60 degrees or so.
>> >
>> > Without posting the links, I saw a couple of research sites which 
>> > stated
>> > that the below ground temperature remained constant year over year at
>> > 15-20 meters.  *No site* says that worldwide the ground temperature at
>> > that depth is the same.  It says that it approximates the annual 
>> > average
>> > temperature at that depth.  The further down you go (measured in
>> > hundreds of feet), the warmer it gets due to heat from the core.
>> >
>> > So take the average annual temperature in your area, and at 15 meters
>> > (more than 45 feet) the soil temperature should match.  Shallower than
>> > that, the daily temperature averages begin affecting the measurements.
>> > At 1 meter, the previous day's average temperature is approximated.
>> >
>> > I didn't expect this answer.  I always felt the cold earth wherever I
>> > dug a hole and it reinforced the previous belief that the 60 degree
>> > constant was true.
>> >
>> > Rick Weaver
>> >
>> > P.S. how this relates to gasoline in underground tanks - unless they're
>> > buried 45 feet below ground, the daily average temperature will affect
>> > the temperature of the gas stored there.  And even then, the 
>> > temperature
>> > will match the average annual temperature.  The 60 degree constant
>> > isn't.
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>> > [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of George 
>> > Willer
>> > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 6:32 PM
>> > To: 'Antique tractor email discussion group'
>> > Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Gas story
>> >
>> > Walt,
>> >
>> > I guess it must be the different schools we went to.
>> >
>> > First, the ground temperature is NOT the same over the entire country.
>> > It's
>> > very close to the average year round air temperature of the area...
>> > considerably warmer in the south.  The air temperature and sunshine 
>> > (and
>> > night time radiation) is mostly why the ground temperature is what it 
>> > is
>> > in
>> > any given area.
>> >
>> > Second, the pumps meter by volume, not by weight, so when the gas is
>> > expanded by higher temperature there isn't as much energy in a measured
>> > gallon.
>> >
>> > Third, it's not really the temperature of the ground, it's the
>> > temperature
>> > of the contents of the tanker when delivering to a high volume 
>> > outlet...
>> > the
>> > gas is warmed by a long trip through hot summer air and doesn't reach
>> > the
>> > temperature of the ground.
>> >
>> > Forth, Our division of weights and measures requires pumps to be
>> > accurate
>> > within 10%.  They almost never deliver more than standard.  :-(
>> >
>> > Fifth,  Sometimes things may seem like a bunch of bull if you don't
>> > understand them.
>> >
>> > George Willer
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [mailto:at-
>> >> bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of RonMyers at wildblue.net
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 6:59 PM
>> >> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>> >> Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Gas story
>> >>
>> >> George,
>> >> The temperature at the point where the underground tanks are stored is
>> > on
>> >> average 55 deg.  No matter what part of the country that you live in.
>> >> North south east or west . this is set by the government regulations.
>> > so
>> >> it really doesn't matter where you get it from.
>> >> In almost all states the meters on the pumps are tested to guarantee
>> > their
>> >> accuracy so this whole bunch of Bull is just that a bunch of Bull.
>> >> You a full gallon of gas at each station or the government will come
>> > down
>> >> hard on the owners.
>> >>
>> >> Ron
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Some folks completely miss the point.  It's the temperature of the
>> > gas
>> >> > when
>> >> > it's metered through the gas pump at the station that makes the
>> >> > difference.
>> >> > The gas that's expanded because it's warmer when it's measured and
>> > sold
>> >> is
>> >> > the point.  You're paying for slightly more than you're actually
>> >> getting.
>> >> > I
>> >> > doubt the difference that's claimed is as large as stated, but
>> > there's a
>> >> > difference anyway.
>> >> >
>> >> > George Willer
>> >> >
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Gas story
>> >> >>
>> >> >> When you put the cold fuel in your hot tank sitting in the sun
>> >> alongside
>> >> >> the Mack doesn't it get warmer.
>> >> >> I can't believe that anybody would believe that the temperature of
>> > the
>> >> >> fuel would make difference. If its gasoline its preheated before it
>> > go
>> >> >> into the Carb. If its diesel it preheated in the manifold same as
>> > fuel
>> >> >> injected cars.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Ron
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
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>> >>
>> >>
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