[AT] OT: Gas story

Larry D Goss rlgoss at evansville.net
Fri Jul 6 06:22:45 PDT 2007


Talk to some mining engineers about the problems of conditioning air in mine 
shafts before you go too far on this concept, Charlie.  It isn't a bed of 
roses.

Larry

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "charlie hill" <chill8 at suddenlink.net>
To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Gas story


> I've been toying with an idea for a modified geothermal heat pump.
> Instead of an underground cooling loop or water source how about an
> underground air shaft to provide near constant temp air to a conventional
> heat pump?
>
> What I had in mind was a few hundred feet of corrugated plastic pipe 
> (maybe
> 8" or so) burried 8 or 10 feet deep with the ends feeding into some sort 
> of
> enclosure for the conventional heat pump that would allow the stabilized
> ground temp air to flow too the heat pump and the hot air comming off of 
> the
> heat pump to be exhausted to the outside.  It's a plan without any of the
> details worked out.  Does anyone think it might work?
>
> Charlie
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "George Willer" <gwill at gwill.net>
> To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'"
> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 4:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Gas story
>
>
>> Jerry,
>>
>> We have more in common than I thought.  We both have extensive experience
>> with Overhead Doors, and now I find the common experience with ground
>> source
>> heat pumps.
>>
>> If people knew more about them they'd be much more popular than they are.
>>
>> George Willer
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [mailto:at-
>>> bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Rhodes
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 1:17 PM
>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>> Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Gas story
>>>
>>> Well, time for my dime, Rick you are right. I retired from the Navy in
>>> 75'
>>> got a job with a Co (Insource Data Inc)from the windy city, funded by U
>>> of
>>> WI to do ground temp taking. We drilled down to 3, 5 an 7 meters to
>>> measure
>>> temps for 24 hours in 7 locations ( Fargo, ND, Marshall MN, Fort Dodge
>>> IA,
>>> Normal IL, Marion IN, Lansing MI, Marion OH, New Castle PA an Hazelton
>>> PA)
>>>
>>> The diffance in temps was about 4 deg at 59 degs..hi 62 degs an low 56
>>> degs.. this was done in June of 77' and again in 82'.( paid better in
>>> 82',
>>> more travel money)
>>>
>>> We found out that this data was to be used by a Thermal Eng Co in
>>> installing
>>> under ground heating/cooling system.
>>>
>>> Enjoyed the work, so your data is right the temp is normally constant
>>> below
>>> 25 feet.
>>>
>>> Jerry NW Ohio
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Rick Weaver" <Rick_Weaver at hilton.com>
>>> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-
>>> tractor.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 11:15 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Gas story
>>>
>>>
>>> > Good morning!
>>> >
>>> > This debate got me to try to research this question because I was 
>>> > under
>>> > the impression that not too far below ground (at least just a few 
>>> > feet)
>>> > that it stayed constantly 60 degrees or so.
>>> >
>>> > Without posting the links, I saw a couple of research sites which
>>> > stated
>>> > that the below ground temperature remained constant year over year at
>>> > 15-20 meters.  *No site* says that worldwide the ground temperature at
>>> > that depth is the same.  It says that it approximates the annual
>>> > average
>>> > temperature at that depth.  The further down you go (measured in
>>> > hundreds of feet), the warmer it gets due to heat from the core.
>>> >
>>> > So take the average annual temperature in your area, and at 15 meters
>>> > (more than 45 feet) the soil temperature should match.  Shallower than
>>> > that, the daily temperature averages begin affecting the measurements.
>>> > At 1 meter, the previous day's average temperature is approximated.
>>> >
>>> > I didn't expect this answer.  I always felt the cold earth wherever I
>>> > dug a hole and it reinforced the previous belief that the 60 degree
>>> > constant was true.
>>> >
>>> > Rick Weaver
>>> >
>>> > P.S. how this relates to gasoline in underground tanks - unless 
>>> > they're
>>> > buried 45 feet below ground, the daily average temperature will affect
>>> > the temperature of the gas stored there.  And even then, the
>>> > temperature
>>> > will match the average annual temperature.  The 60 degree constant
>>> > isn't.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>> > [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of George
>>> > Willer
>>> > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 6:32 PM
>>> > To: 'Antique tractor email discussion group'
>>> > Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Gas story
>>> >
>>> > Walt,
>>> >
>>> > I guess it must be the different schools we went to.
>>> >
>>> > First, the ground temperature is NOT the same over the entire country.
>>> > It's
>>> > very close to the average year round air temperature of the area...
>>> > considerably warmer in the south.  The air temperature and sunshine
>>> > (and
>>> > night time radiation) is mostly why the ground temperature is what it
>>> > is
>>> > in
>>> > any given area.
>>> >
>>> > Second, the pumps meter by volume, not by weight, so when the gas is
>>> > expanded by higher temperature there isn't as much energy in a 
>>> > measured
>>> > gallon.
>>> >
>>> > Third, it's not really the temperature of the ground, it's the
>>> > temperature
>>> > of the contents of the tanker when delivering to a high volume
>>> > outlet...
>>> > the
>>> > gas is warmed by a long trip through hot summer air and doesn't reach
>>> > the
>>> > temperature of the ground.
>>> >
>>> > Forth, Our division of weights and measures requires pumps to be
>>> > accurate
>>> > within 10%.  They almost never deliver more than standard.  :-(
>>> >
>>> > Fifth,  Sometimes things may seem like a bunch of bull if you don't
>>> > understand them.
>>> >
>>> > George Willer
>>> >
>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [mailto:at-
>>> >> bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of RonMyers at wildblue.net
>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 6:59 PM
>>> >> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>> >> Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Gas story
>>> >>
>>> >> George,
>>> >> The temperature at the point where the underground tanks are stored 
>>> >> is
>>> > on
>>> >> average 55 deg.  No matter what part of the country that you live in.
>>> >> North south east or west . this is set by the government regulations.
>>> > so
>>> >> it really doesn't matter where you get it from.
>>> >> In almost all states the meters on the pumps are tested to guarantee
>>> > their
>>> >> accuracy so this whole bunch of Bull is just that a bunch of Bull.
>>> >> You a full gallon of gas at each station or the government will come
>>> > down
>>> >> hard on the owners.
>>> >>
>>> >> Ron
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> > Some folks completely miss the point.  It's the temperature of the
>>> > gas
>>> >> > when
>>> >> > it's metered through the gas pump at the station that makes the
>>> >> > difference.
>>> >> > The gas that's expanded because it's warmer when it's measured and
>>> > sold
>>> >> is
>>> >> > the point.  You're paying for slightly more than you're actually
>>> >> getting.
>>> >> > I
>>> >> > doubt the difference that's claimed is as large as stated, but
>>> > there's a
>>> >> > difference anyway.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > George Willer
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Gas story
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> When you put the cold fuel in your hot tank sitting in the sun
>>> >> alongside
>>> >> >> the Mack doesn't it get warmer.
>>> >> >> I can't believe that anybody would believe that the temperature of
>>> > the
>>> >> >> fuel would make difference. If its gasoline its preheated before 
>>> >> >> it
>>> > go
>>> >> >> into the Carb. If its diesel it preheated in the manifold same as
>>> > fuel
>>> >> >> injected cars.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Ron
>>> >> >
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > AT mailing list
>>> >> > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> AT mailing list
>>> >> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > AT mailing list
>>> > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > AT mailing list
>>> > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>> >
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> AT mailing list
>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AT mailing list
>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/887 - Release Date: 7/5/2007
>> 1:55 PM
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> AT mailing list
> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> 





More information about the AT mailing list