[AT] OT: Gas story

Thu Jul 5 13:50:41 PDT 2007

Jerry,

We have more in common than I thought.  We both have extensive experience
with Overhead Doors, and now I find the common experience with ground source
heat pumps.  

If people knew more about them they'd be much more popular than they are.

George Willer

> -----Original Message-----
> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [mailto:at-
> bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Rhodes
> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 1:17 PM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Gas story
> 
> Well, time for my dime, Rick you are right. I retired from the Navy in 75'
> got a job with a Co (Insource Data Inc)from the windy city, funded by U of
> WI to do ground temp taking. We drilled down to 3, 5 an 7 meters to
> measure
> temps for 24 hours in 7 locations ( Fargo, ND, Marshall MN, Fort Dodge IA,
> Normal IL, Marion IN, Lansing MI, Marion OH, New Castle PA an Hazelton PA)
> 
> The diffance in temps was about 4 deg at 59 degs..hi 62 degs an low 56
> degs.. this was done in June of 77' and again in 82'.( paid better in 82',
> more travel money)
> 
> We found out that this data was to be used by a Thermal Eng Co in
> installing
> under ground heating/cooling system.
> 
> Enjoyed the work, so your data is right the temp is normally constant
> below
> 25 feet.
> 
> Jerry NW Ohio
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rick Weaver" <Rick_Weaver at hilton.com>
> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-
> tractor.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 11:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Gas story
> 
> 
> > Good morning!
> >
> > This debate got me to try to research this question because I was under
> > the impression that not too far below ground (at least just a few feet)
> > that it stayed constantly 60 degrees or so.
> >
> > Without posting the links, I saw a couple of research sites which stated
> > that the below ground temperature remained constant year over year at
> > 15-20 meters.  *No site* says that worldwide the ground temperature at
> > that depth is the same.  It says that it approximates the annual average
> > temperature at that depth.  The further down you go (measured in
> > hundreds of feet), the warmer it gets due to heat from the core.
> >
> > So take the average annual temperature in your area, and at 15 meters
> > (more than 45 feet) the soil temperature should match.  Shallower than
> > that, the daily temperature averages begin affecting the measurements.
> > At 1 meter, the previous day's average temperature is approximated.
> >
> > I didn't expect this answer.  I always felt the cold earth wherever I
> > dug a hole and it reinforced the previous belief that the 60 degree
> > constant was true.
> >
> > Rick Weaver
> >
> > P.S. how this relates to gasoline in underground tanks - unless they're
> > buried 45 feet below ground, the daily average temperature will affect
> > the temperature of the gas stored there.  And even then, the temperature
> > will match the average annual temperature.  The 60 degree constant
> > isn't.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of George Willer
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 6:32 PM
> > To: 'Antique tractor email discussion group'
> > Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Gas story
> >
> > Walt,
> >
> > I guess it must be the different schools we went to.
> >
> > First, the ground temperature is NOT the same over the entire country.
> > It's
> > very close to the average year round air temperature of the area...
> > considerably warmer in the south.  The air temperature and sunshine (and
> > night time radiation) is mostly why the ground temperature is what it is
> > in
> > any given area.
> >
> > Second, the pumps meter by volume, not by weight, so when the gas is
> > expanded by higher temperature there isn't as much energy in a measured
> > gallon.
> >
> > Third, it's not really the temperature of the ground, it's the
> > temperature
> > of the contents of the tanker when delivering to a high volume outlet...
> > the
> > gas is warmed by a long trip through hot summer air and doesn't reach
> > the
> > temperature of the ground.
> >
> > Forth, Our division of weights and measures requires pumps to be
> > accurate
> > within 10%.  They almost never deliver more than standard.  :-(
> >
> > Fifth,  Sometimes things may seem like a bunch of bull if you don't
> > understand them.
> >
> > George Willer
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [mailto:at-
> >> bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of RonMyers at wildblue.net
> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 6:59 PM
> >> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> >> Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Gas story
> >>
> >> George,
> >> The temperature at the point where the underground tanks are stored is
> > on
> >> average 55 deg.  No matter what part of the country that you live in.
> >> North south east or west . this is set by the government regulations.
> > so
> >> it really doesn't matter where you get it from.
> >> In almost all states the meters on the pumps are tested to guarantee
> > their
> >> accuracy so this whole bunch of Bull is just that a bunch of Bull.
> >> You a full gallon of gas at each station or the government will come
> > down
> >> hard on the owners.
> >>
> >> Ron
> >>
> >>
> >> > Some folks completely miss the point.  It's the temperature of the
> > gas
> >> > when
> >> > it's metered through the gas pump at the station that makes the
> >> > difference.
> >> > The gas that's expanded because it's warmer when it's measured and
> > sold
> >> is
> >> > the point.  You're paying for slightly more than you're actually
> >> getting.
> >> > I
> >> > doubt the difference that's claimed is as large as stated, but
> > there's a
> >> > difference anyway.
> >> >
> >> > George Willer
> >> >
> >> >> Subject: Re: [AT] OT: Gas story
> >> >>
> >> >> When you put the cold fuel in your hot tank sitting in the sun
> >> alongside
> >> >> the Mack doesn't it get warmer.
> >> >> I can't believe that anybody would believe that the temperature of
> > the
> >> >> fuel would make difference. If its gasoline its preheated before it
> > go
> >> >> into the Carb. If its diesel it preheated in the manifold same as
> > fuel
> >> >> injected cars.
> >> >>
> >> >> Ron
> >> >
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> >> >
> >>
> >>
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