[AT] Canola to diesel

Mon Feb 5 05:16:44 PST 2007

Of course diesel engines have changed and improved over the years.  But the 
basic premise is still the same--ignition thru compression of fuel as 
opposed to a spark.  George says with the MB glow plugs are necessary for 
ignition.  Wonder how I started mine cold when my glowplugs were not working 
last fall? The heated ball pin aids in combustion but is not required.

>From: "charlie hill" <chill8 at suddenlink.net>
>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>Subject: Re: [AT] Canola to diesel
>Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 07:54:55 -0500
>
>Tom,  the Diesel engine (large D) was designed by a man named Diesel who 
>had a patent on it.  There are other engine designs that burn fuel oil but 
>they aren't true Diesels unless they are designed according to the Diesel 
>patent. I don't know enough to explain it but it has to do with how the 
>fuel oil is injected, pre-heated and fired.  diesel (small d) has become a 
>generic term for all fuel oil burning engines in the same way that some 
>folks used to call any refrigerator a Frigidair.
>
>Charlie
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Yasnowski" 
><tomyasnowski at hotmail.com>
>To: <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 7:04 PM
>Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
>
>
>>I cant speak for the new MB's, but If the old mercedes are not true 
>>diesels then today isnt super bowl sunday. If it sounds like a diesel, 
>>smells like a diesel, takes diesel fuel, has lousy pickup and
>>starts hard in the cold, has 260K + miles and still purrs, and can run 
>>straight vegetable oil to boot, and doiesnt have spark plugs,then by 
>>gollly, its a diesel!.
>>
>>
>>>From: "George Willer" <gwill at gwill.net>
>>>Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group 
>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'" 
>>><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
>>>Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 16:34:26 -0500
>>>
>>>I don't think any basic changes can be retroactive.  It's been about 17
>>>years since I drove any Mercedes regularly.  As far as I know the 190,
>>>190DC, 200D, 220D, 240D, and 300D remain pre-chamber engines.  As best I 
>>>can
>>>tell they are NOT true diesels.  The only Mercedes I currently own is a 
>>>450
>>>SLC and it's too valuable to drive.
>>>
>>>George Willer
>>>
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [mailto:at-
>>> > bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Tom Yasnowski
>>> > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 3:09 PM
>>> > To: at at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>> > Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
>>> >
>>> > "Pre chamber"?  Sounds like you are talking about a IDI engine.  I > 
>>>think
>>> > most of them are DI engines
>>> > now....
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >From: "George Willer" <gwill at gwill.net>
>>> > >Reply-To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>> > ><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>> > >To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'"
>>> > ><at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>> > >Subject: RE: [AT] Canola to diesel
>>> > >Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 13:54:53 -0500
>>> > >
>>> > >Mike,
>>> > >
>>> > >Maybe I was a bit hasty... maybe it's only the auto engines I'm quite
>>> > >familiar with that aren't true diesels.  They are NOT compression
>>> > ignition,
>>> > >a requirement for diesel, as I understand the term.  They have a
>>>throttle
>>> > >plate that restricts the intake severely at low speeds, resulting in
>>> > >compression ratios far below those required for true diesel
>>>operation...
>>> > >possibly less than 3:1 at idle.  This throttle plate is not to be
>>> > confused
>>> > >with the safety plate working like a check valve to prevent the 
>>>engine
>>> > from
>>> > >running backward.
>>> > >
>>> > >They require glow plugs for starting and a heated ball pin (acting > 
>>> >like
>>>a
>>> > >constant glow plug) for continued running.  A broken ball pin will > 
>>> >make
>>> > the
>>> > >cylinder unable to fire.  The injectors feed into a pre-chamber
>>> > containing
>>> > >both the glow plug and the heated ball pin.  The combustion begins
>>>there
>>> > >and
>>> > >is forced through an orfice into the main combustion chamber.
>>> > >
>>> > >It's understandable that many Mercedes owners aren't aware of the odd
>>> > >ignition system since it's unlikely many even consider working on > 
>>> >them.
>>> > Of
>>> > >the eight I've owned 6 have been "diesels" and I've completely 
>>>rebuilt
>>> > most
>>> > >of them.
>>> > >
>>> > >George Willer
>>> > >
>>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>>> > > > From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com [mailto:at-
>>> > > > bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Mike Sloane
>>> > > > Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 12:50 PM
>>> > > > To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>> > > > Subject: Re: [AT] Canola to diesel
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Mercedes aren't true diesels? You have to explain that one, 
>>>George!
>>> > > > Mercedes Benz (aka Daimler Benz) probably makes more diesel 
>>>engines
>>> > > > (car, trucks, marine, industrial, etc.) than any other single
>>> > > > manufacturer in the world, and if they aren't "true" diesels, it
>>>will
>>> > be
>>> > > > a surprise to a LOT of owners/operators. :-)
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Mike
>>> > > >
>>> > > > George Willer wrote:
>>> > > > > Mercedes has different ideas about diesel fuel... possibly > > > 
>>> > because
>>> > >they
>>> > > > > aren't true diesels some other concoctions are suggested.  They
>>>even
>>> > > > endorse
>>> > > > > adding a significant amount of gasoline to the diesel in cold
>>> > weather
>>> > >to
>>> > > > > improve starting.
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > George Willer
>>> > > >
>>> > > > --
>>> > > > Mike Sloane
>>> > > > Allamuchy NJ
>>> > > > <mikesloane at verizon.net>
>>> > > > Website: <www.geocities.com/mikesloane>
>>> > > > Images: <www.fotki.com/mikesloane>
>>> > > >
>>> > > > It's hard to argue against cynics - they always sound smarter
>>> > > > than optimists because they have so much evidence on their side.
>>> > > > -- Molly Ivins 1944-2007
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