[AT] Step one: Stop being an idiot

William Powell william.neff.powell at comcast.net
Sat Sep 30 19:15:25 PDT 2006


If I had a dollar for every stupid thing I've overlooked when trying to
start an engine...

I agree with Dean, start at the beginning... And always ask the owner (or
yourself) "What has changed?"

Story: Friends GTX car would not start, he walked over to my house to ask if
I could start it... I get to his house with my Chilton Manual under my arm
and his father jumps out from his house and says "It's the carburetor, I
know it". (I'm thinking, well if you know it, why am I here?) So I get on
top of the big block mopar, (450? 400 something, it was big, and fast)
remove the air filter, work the throttle and watch the 4 barrel shoot two
long streams of fuel down the barrels from the accelerator pump... I hear
"It's the carburetor" I tell him what I see and he keeps saying "It's the
Carburetor!" I was only 17 then, and I couldn't tell my friends father he
was an idiot, so I keep my mouth shut. I then ask the 3 million dollar
question "Have you done anything to the car between the time it was running
and now?" my friend says "Well, we just put on new wires".... So I get out
my manual, look up the firing order and start pulling wires and placing them
in the proper order while an irate father is saying "It's the Carburetor!".
I finish and tell my friend to turn the key, vroommmm..... I raised my
eyebrows and cocked my head at his father and he walked inside without
saying a word.....

Story: When I was a teen I was trying to start a Honda ct70 for a friend...
Checked spark=yes, compression=yes, checked timing marks on chain=yes, fuel
in carb=yes. Scratching my head... After hours of kick starting, Took bowl
off of carb again, dribbled some gas on the ground, through a match on it,
nothing! Asked friend where he got his last batch of gas... From an old can
in the back of his friends shed...

Story: Got a used chainsaw from a friend, he got it from his friend.. Same
type as an Allis Chalmers saw, old... Checked spark=yes, compression=yes,
fuel=yes (Fuel was good)... Pulled, pulled, pulled nothing. Next day,
checked points=good. Pulled Pulled Pulled... Next day, Took starter off
again to look at points, noticed pull cord was taking a weird turn... Looked
at flywheel fins, cupped the opposite way to the way I was pulling .... Wow,
it then came to me, last person that worked on it put the pull starter in
backwards! Reversed it, started first pull.....

A few times I have been stumped with old two strokes that would idle but had
very little power... Turned out to be clogged exhaust pipes...

I believe with engines you need to start at the very beginning... What are
engines = "Heat Pumps". An explosion has to happen which makes heat, that
expands and pushes a piston down and so on and so on... For engines that
don't start, I always try to think about that explosion and why it isn't
happening.... Compression, Spark, Fuel, timing... And, I always say, when in
doubt, change the spark plug, even if the one in it is new!

Last story, (sorry I am droning) Had a neighbor try to get a roto tiller
started for a few hours, heard him pulling and pulling, finally came me and
asked me to look at it... First thing I did was take the plug off and put it
on the side of the head with the wire on it, pulled cord, no spark. Neighbor
blurts out "It's a new plug, we just put it in, can't be the plug". I said,
"Well, either the new plug is bad or you have a bigger problem, where is the
old plug?" Put old plug in, first pull, started right up.

Regards,

Will Powell 


-----Original Message-----
From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of charlie hill
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 10:14 AM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] Step one: Stop being an idiot

It happens to all of us some times Dean.  Glad you figured it out!
I cranked my chainsaw until I was exhausted one day, sat down and thought
about how it ALWAYS started right up and how it must need a tune up then
cranked on it some more before I realized I hadn't turned the switch on even
though it was less than 2 inches from my hand.

Charlie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Vinson" <dean at vinsonfarm.net>
To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'" 
<at at lists.antique-tractor.com>; "'Farmall/IHC mailing list'" 
<farmall at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 9:11 AM
Subject: [AT] Step one: Stop being an idiot


> Oh for Pete's sake.
>
> I've been struggling with this Farmall M, trying to get it to start.  It's
> had assorted woes since I bought it a month or so ago but had always 
> started
> easily.
>
> Last weekend I went to warm it up and change the oil, having previously
> gotten all the wiring with the generator, regulator, lights, and switch
> sorted out (thanks to many of you for help).  It wouldn't start, not so 
> much
> as a pop.  Posted some questions to the list, got some help from you 
> folks,
> tried again on Wednesday, and by then it started up.  Had some coughing 
> and
> clouds of smoke, but it started up and smoothed out so I figured it had 
> been
> flooded and didn't worry more about it.  Warmed it up, shut it down, 
> changed
> the oil.  Tried to start it back up to put the tractor away, and once 
> again,
> nothing.  Wouldn't start.  So that set off this last couple of days' worth
> of questions and suggestions.
>
> (All of which has been very helpful, and by now the carburetor and air
> cleaner are *way* cleaner than before, and the points look clean and the 
> gap
> is good, and I know what the cylinder compression is and it looks okay, 
> and
> assorted other good things).
>
> But I'd left out part of the story.  When I was warming the tractor up on
> Wednesday, I'd been happy to see the ammeter, lights, generator, and
> regulator all working.  But just as I was about to park the tractor to
> change the oil, the ammeter jumped to full discharge and stayed there even
> after I shut the engine off.  The generator itself was very warm to the
> touch, so I thought "uh oh, must have shorted internally" and I 
> disconnected
> both the BAT and L terminals on the regulator.  That stopped the drain on
> the battery, and I forgot about it while I went ahead and changed the oil.
> Figured I'd get that done while the oil was still warm, then look into 
> what
> was causing the short.
>
> So I still need to fix that short, but have spent all these hours cranking
> and checking and cleaning and poking on that tractor, and never thought to
> connect the wires from the BAT and L terminal back together.  The 
> regulator
> doesn't need to be connected for the ignition system to work--but those
> wires need to be connected.  BAT and L are common inside the regulator.
> Ignition circuit flows from the battery though the ammeter to the BAT
> terminal... then back through the L terminal to the light switch and the
> ignition switch.  Disconnecting those wires isolated whatever the short 
> is,
> but also left the ignition switch with no juice whatsoever.
>
> So this morning I put the 6V battery back in and, as several of you have
> suggested, checked the ignition circuit starting at the beginning.  About 
> 30
> seconds into it, got to the nice shiny new (disconnected) wires at the
> regulator.  Hooked them to each other, pressed the starter, and the 
> tractor
> fired right up and runs like a top.
>
> So, time to go look into that short, and see if it's really something with
> the generator.  I'll try hard to rule out the stupidity factor before
> posting any more questions...
>
> Dean Vinson
> Dayton, Ohio
> www.vinsonfarm.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Remembering Our Friend Cecil Monson 11-4-2005
> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>
>
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