[AT] Allis question
Gilbert Schwartz
gschwartz1 at mchsi.com
Tue Mar 14 08:03:16 PST 2006
Brad; My Allis Dealer Parts Manual indicates that exterior surge spring was
used up to engine number # 244001 and discontinued after that. After due
consideration though, and in light of the fact that it isn't much trouble,
I'd carefully (in order to save the gasket) take the front cover off the
governor and take a look in there. See if that spring is doing it's thing
and hasn't come unhooked or broken. If it's broken try to make sure you have
ALL of it's pieces.
Gil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Gunnells" <brad-gunnells at uiowa.edu>
To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [AT] Allis question
> Well, I don't think there ever has been the surge spring. My IT shop
> manual (not the best however) indicated that those may have been removed
> in later production?
>
> The tractor will raise RPM and lower with the throttle without any
> problem. It doesn't "surge" either. The only thing it's doing other than
> the initial lurch (when something broke/changed) is that the wide open
> throttle seems too fast. I'll put a tach on it and check it. The other
> thing while looking it over that I noticed, is that with it NOT running I
> grabbed the carb linkage and the linkage moved freely back and forth
> (opening and closing the carb) with no resistance. Shouldn't it "pull"
> back to close? Of course I don't normally play with that linkage to know
> for sure how it "should" be.
>
> Thanks for all your help and suggestions.
>
> Brad
>
> On Mar 13, 2006, at 11:16 AM, Gilbert Schwartz wrote:
>
>> Brad; Sounds like you may have a lost or broken surge spring. There is
>> supposed to be one that hooks to the rod that runs from the governor to
>> the carb. The spring hooks to that rod and also to the block drain. It
>> keeps the governor from reacting too quickly. Some times one of the
>> hooks will rust and break off. You'll usually find the broken spring
>> swinging loosely on the rod OR laying on the floor under the tractor,
>> depending on which hook broke off. (usually the drain end rusts off
>> first) If that fix don't get it, I'm guessing the problem is inside the
>> governor. I'd check the weights in there next. It's not a big deal. Gil
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gunnells, Bradley R" <brad-
>> gunnells at uiowa.edu>
>> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-
>> tractor.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 9:01 PM
>> Subject: [AT] Allis question
>>
>>
>> I thougt I'd change things up with a tractor related question.
>>
>> Today I noticed something different about my 1945 Allis WC. I started it
>> up and let it run (warm up) for a few minutes. As I was backing out of
>> the pole barn (about 1/2 throttle) it kind of lurched and sped up. I
>> throttled it down and continuted to back out.
>>
>> I put it in forward gear and took off, I reached down to open the
>> throttle and it opened up and reved much higher at full throttle than
>> normal. I hooked on to the trailer and continued to use it but careful
>> not to throttle it up too much. It would rev much higher than normal if
>> I opened it up. It would idle down when the throttle was closed without
>> any problem.
>>
>> Does this sound like a governor spring? I was looking at the IT shop
>> manual I have and there appears to be only one. The repair/ overhaul
>> directions say to pull it out with the mag and it's mount. But this
>> would appear to leave the spring and throttle/carb shafts in the
>> remaining housing. There is a cover that can be removed to access (or at
>> least see) the spring.
>>
>> Before I begin tearing things apart I thought I'd see if anyone has had
>> a similar happening. Or am I even on the right track. If I do have a
>> broken spring (or other part) where are some good places to find them.
>> Is the AGCO dealer going to have them (is this a common part)? I use
>> this tractor a fair bit (it's my favorite) so I'd like to limit the down
>> time.
>>
>> Thanks for any suggestions.
>> Brad
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Brad Gunnells | #
> University of Iowa | ||
> Information Technology Services | I_ ___ at ___||_____
> Campus Services/ITC Technical Support | |__ I \ |Allis Chalmers|
> Iowa City IA 52242 | ___\___ \ \ WC|
> (319)335-5524 FAX (319)335-5505 | * * *___|__\__________ -|
> mailto:brad-gunnells at uiowa.edu | * *----------------\___|
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> Interested in almost anything | * * o o
> besides work! ;^) | * * * oo
>
> Web Space: http://www.southslope.net/~gunnells/
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
> --Apple-Mail-2-756455717
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Content-Type: text/html;
> charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> <HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
> -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">Well, I don't think there ever =
> has been the surge spring. My IT shop manual (not the best however) =
> indicated that those may have been removed in later production?<DIV><BR =
> class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>The tractor will raise RPM =
> and lower with the throttle without any problem. It doesn't "surge" =
> either. The only thing it's doing other than the initial lurch (when =
> something broke/changed) is that the wide open throttle seems too fast. =
> I'll put a tach on it and check it. The other thing while looking it =
> over that I noticed, is that with it NOT running I grabbed the carb =
> linkage and the linkage moved freely back and forth (opening and closing =
> the carb) with no resistance. Shouldn't it "pull" back to close? Of =
> course I don't normally play with that linkage to know for sure how it =
> "should" be.</DIV><DIV><BR =
> class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Thanks for all your help =
> and suggestions.</DIV><DIV><BR =
> class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Brad</DIV><DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>=
> On Mar 13, 2006, at 11:16 AM, Gilbert Schwartz wrote:</DIV><BR =
> class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Brad; Sounds like you may have a lost or broken =
> surge spring. There is supposed to be one that hooks to the rod that =
> runs from the governor to the carb. The spring hooks to that rod and =
> also to the block drain. It keeps the governor from reacting too =
> quickly. Some times one of the hooks will<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>rust and break off. You'll =
> usually find the broken spring swinging loosely on the rod OR laying on =
> the floor under the tractor, depending on which hook broke off. (usually =
> the drain end rusts off first) If that fix don't get it, I'm guessing =
> the problem is inside the governor. I'd check the weights in there next. =
> It's not a big deal. Gil</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">----- =
> Original Message ----- From: "Gunnells, Bradley R" <<A =
> href=3D"mailto:brad-gunnells at uiowa.edu">brad-gunnells at uiowa.edu</A>></D=
> IV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <<A =
> href=3D"mailto:at at lists.antique-tractor.com">at at lists.antique-tractor.com<=
> /A>></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 =
> 9:01 PM</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: [AT] Allis =
> question</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top:
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I thougt =
> I'd change things up with a tractor related question.</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top:
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Today I =
> noticed something different about my 1945 Allis WC. I started it up and =
> let it run (warm up) for a few minutes. As I was backing out of the pole =
> barn (about 1/2 throttle) it kind of lurched and sped up. I throttled it =
> down and continuted to back out.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I put it in forward gear and =
> took off, I reached down to open the throttle and it opened up and reved =
> much higher at full throttle than normal. I hooked on to the trailer and =
> continued to use it but careful not to throttle it up too much. It would =
> rev much higher than normal if I opened it up. It would idle down when =
> the throttle was closed without any problem.</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top:
> =
> 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Does =
> this sound like a governor spring? I was looking at the IT shop manual I =
> have and there appears to be only one. The repair/overhaul directions =
> say to pull it out with the mag and it's mount. But this would appear to =
> leave the spring and throttle/carb shafts in the remaining housing. =
> There is a cover that can be removed to access (or at least see) the =
> spring.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; ">Before I begin tearing things apart I thought I'd =
> see if anyone has had a similar happening. Or am I even on the right =
> track. If I do have a broken spring (or other part) where are some good =
> places to find them. Is the AGCO dealer going to have them (is this a =
> common part)? I use this tractor a fair bit (it's my favorite) so I'd =
> like to limit the down time.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
> margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
> 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Thanks for any =
> suggestions.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
> margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Brad</DIV><DIV =
> style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
> margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
> "><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV><BR><DIV> <P style=3D"margin: 0.0px =
> 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
> 12.0px =
> Courier">-----------------------------------------------------------------=
> ----</FONT></P> <P style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT =
> face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">Brad Gunnells =
> <SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
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> =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>|<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
> =
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> 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: =
> 12.0px Courier">University of Iowa<SPAN
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> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </SPAN>|<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
> </SPAN>||</FONT></P> <P style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT =
> face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">Information =
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> </SPAN>___ at ___||_____</FONT></P> <P style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px =
> 0.0px"><FONT face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px =
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> <P style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face=3D"Courier" =
> size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">Iowa City IA 52242<SPAN =
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> </SPAN>| <SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>___\___<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>\ \<SPAN =
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> </SPAN>WC|</FONT></P> <P style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT =
> face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">(319)335-5524 =
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> size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier"><A =
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> </SPAN>oo</FONT></P> <P style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT =
> face=3D"Courier" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">Interested in =
> almost anything <SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
> </SPAN>|<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>* <SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 </SPAN>*<SPAN =
> class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
> </SPAN>o<SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>o</FONT></P> <P =
> style=3D"margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><FONT face=3D"Courier" =
> size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Courier">besides work!<SPAN =
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> </SPAN>| <SPAN class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </SPAN>* * *<SPAN =
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