[AT] More M&W Hand Clutch Ramblings

Dudley Rupert drupert at premier1.net
Mon Oct 24 13:09:12 PDT 2005


Yeah ... or maybe they fell asleep!

Dudley
Snohomish

-----Original Message-----
From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com]On Behalf Of Dean VP
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 10:38 PM
To: 'Antique tractor email discussion group'
Subject: RE: [AT] More M&W Hand Clutch Ramblings

Dudley:


They forgot while reading your thesis!  :-)


Dean A. Van Peursem
Snohomish, WA 98290

Forbidden fruits create many jams!

www.deerelegacy.com

http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm



-----Original Message-----
From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Dudley Rupert
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 10:05 PM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: [AT] More M&W Hand Clutch Ramblings

The Dallas/Seattle football game is over and it's dark and rainy in the
Northwest so here I am sitting at my computer thinking a bit more about
Farmer's question of a couple of days ago re: the installation of the
subject clutch -

Yesterday I posted on this subject and said that the M&W sales literature
that I have states that less than one hour is required to install the
subject clutch on a Super H or Super M.  To be specific the exact M&W quote
is "Your Farmall Super H and Super M can have Live-POW'R installed in less
than an hour" ... Oh really now.

I have a unique ability that lets me use up an hour in doing the simplest of
tasks around a tractor ... tasks like oh say changing the oil.  First I have
to go get the box of new oil that I left up in the garage and not down in
the shed where the tractor is.  Then I have to scratch my head and try and
remember where I left the new filter that I know I bought just last month
... or was it last year and then I start wondering did I already put that
filter in one of my other tractors?  Then I have to go look for the drain
pan and when I finally find it setting out back of the shed I find that
someone - no, it just couldn't have been me - left it full of old oil which
is sitting on top of rain water.  I then have to look in each of the several
five gallon cans that I keep around to pour old oil into and see if there is
enough room left in them to hold the contents of the drain pan just one more
time.  I then have to ...well you get my point.

So, getting downright honest for a minute, I have to admit there really
isn't any tractor related task that I can do in less than an hour.  But I
know you guys are smart/nimble/fast/organized wizards and you are the ones
M&W had in mind when they said that this clutch could be installed in less
than an hour.  But still it would be informative to know just what steps are
required to do the installation.

The first of the two "crucial" tasks is to remove and discard the left Bull
and Brake Shaft Pinion.  This shaft - as some of you likely already know -
is splined on both ends with the Pinion in the middle.  The end of this
shaft that resides in the inside of the Rear Frame of the tractor mates up
with the Differential's Left Bevel Gear, the Pinion mates with the Bull Gear
which is attached to the inside end of the Left Axle and the other end of
the shaft comes out through the Left Side of the Rear Frame where the Brake
Drum or, in the case of the supers, the Disc Brakes are attached.

The second of the two "crucial" tasks is to install the M&W hand clutch
unit.  The shaft coming out of the M&W clutch unit replaces the left Bull
and Brake Shaft Pinion discussed above.  This M&W shaft is really two
shafts, that is, two concentric shafts (one inside the other).  The inner
M&W shaft is splined on the end and mates with the Differential's Left Bevel
Gear.  This inner shaft transmits power from the differential to a circular
plate, which makes up the outside of the M&W clutch.  There is a similar
plate, which makes up the inside of the M&W clutch, and this inner plate is
attached to one end of the outer concentric shaft.  This outer concentric
shaft extends back inside the tractor with the pinion gear on the inside end
of this shaft.  The entire M&W clutch unit is enclosed with a cover that is
the same size bolt pattern wise as the IH factory installed brake housing
although, as I recall, the M&W enclosure did stick out maybe an inch further
than the IH installed brake housing.  If the "guts" of the clutch are
removed (i.e., the asbestos plates alternating with the machined metal
plates) and the inner and outer plates of the clutch are bolted together, as
they were on my H, then of course there is no clutch and the unit acts just
like the IH factory installed left Bull and Brake Shaft Pinion.

I listed the two "crucial" tasks involved with the installation but, as is
often the case, sometimes it can be the so called minor tasks involved in
doing a job that turn out to cause the real discomfort.  For example, I have
removed the Rear Frame Cover on both a Farmall H and MTA and it is a pain in
the rear, particularly as both of these had belt pulley drives that had to
be removed first.  Also, in the case of the MTA the hydraulic reservoir has
to be removed.  What I haven't done, however, is to remove a Bull and Brake
Shaft Pinion.  If removal of the Shaft Pinion requires getting inside the
Rear Frame then I don't think even you s/n/f/o guys could get the Pinion out
in less than an hour, particularly if you are concerned at all about messing
up any painted surfaces.  However, if removal of the Shaft Pinion does not
require getting inside the Rear Frame then I think s/n/f/o guys maybe could
install an M&W hand clutch in an hour.

But me, first I'd have to remember where I left the tractor, then find the
correct socket and ...

Note:  I'd like to know ... maybe one of you Farmall guys can tell us what
is involved in removing a Farmall H or M Bull and Brake Shaft Pinion -

Dudley
Snohomish, Washington




-----Original Message-----
From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com]On Behalf Of Dudley Rupert
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 3:57 PM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: RE: [AT] Some ads from the 10/15 Lancaster Farming

Farmer,

I have not installed an M&W clutch so I can't give a direct answer to your'
question re: the installation -

However, I did buy a Farmall H (with band brakes) some four or five years
ago that had an M&W clutch.  The clutch is a dry over-center design with
four asbestos clutch plates (or discs) that mate with machined metal
surfaces (something like the clutch plates/mating surfaces buildup in a late
model John Deere A or B).

The M&W literature I have on this clutch says it has the capacity to handle
twice the HP a Farmall can produce - I have no idea if that was true or not.
This literature - which I would call a factory sales brochure - also says
that the unit can be installed on a Super H or Super M (i.e., disc brake
tractors) in less than an hour and that the band brake tractors take a bit
longer.

Incidentally, the hand clutch on my H did not work.  The PO, because as he
said he could no longer get new or resurfaced clutch plates, simply took the
worn plates out and bolted the clutch halves together.  I happened to be in
Bates in Bourbon, Indiana earlier this year and they said they had the
plates for a hundred bucks a piece or four hundred bucks for one M&W clutch
unit.

Dudley Rupert
Snohomish, Washington


-----Original Message-----
From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com]On Behalf Of Indiana Robinson
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 11:15 AM
To: Antique tractor email discussion group
Subject: Re: [AT] Some ads from the 10/15 Lancaster Farming

On 15 Oct 2005 at 18:23, Mike Sloane wrote:

>
> M&W hand clutch off a 1950 Farmall M, complete as is,
$250.
> Berks Co. 610-987-8913.
>


        Just curious... Has anybody ever installed one of those?
How much tear down or machining is involved? I have seen
them for years so I must assume some decent level of
reliability. Are they a wet or dry clutch? I have to wonder
why someone would go the trouble to take one out unless
there was a problem. I guess it could be from a scrapped
tractor...

--
"farmer"
Hewick Midwest

The master in the art of living makes little distinction
between his
work and his play, his labor and his leisure, his mind and
his body,
his information and his recreation, his love and his
religion. He
hardly knows which is which. He simply pursues his vision
of
excellence at whatever he does, leaving others to decide
whether he
is working or playing. To him he's always doing both.
 ~ James A. Michener, attributed

Francis Robinson
Central Indiana USA
robinson at svs.net
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