[AJD] serial number discussion

Sun May 29 22:10:20 PDT 2005

Paul,
Dig out your January-February 1997 issue of Two-Cylinder magazine - page 33 
has an article on how the list published by Two Cylinder on their membership 
card was generated.  It references the earlier JD publications in this 
discussion also.
Check out your Plow Catalog - GP cultivators, etc.  There are dates given 
there, not serial numbers.  I agree that generally JD used s/n to 
distinguish changes, but there are counter examples - first use of 
reversible front wheels, for example.
Regards,
Duane

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul O" <mrgp at fwi.com>
To: "Antique John Deere mailing list" 
<antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2005 12:40 PM
Subject: [AJD] Re: Model Year???

>
>
> Dean
>
>
>
> In my opinion, Deere never built tractors by model year. We tend to think 
> model year because we have all been brain washed by the automobile 
> industry where each year, there was a cosmetic change, if not a design 
> change, to identify model year. Automobiles also had a title, recorded in 
> state records, which specified a model year.
>
>
>
> This was not true with tractors which have no title (at least in the 
> states where I have lived). I have seen a few advertisements from the 
> 1930's, but I have never seen a Deere publication which refers to a 
> tractor as a 1932 GP or a 1933 D. The parts books will testify to the fact 
> that when Deere felt a change was needed, it was made with no 
> consideration of the calendar.
>
>
>
> I have spent time in the archives studying production records of GP 
> tractors.
>
> These records were kept in a very large book. On each page, the left most 
> column lists serial numbers. The serial numbers were ink stamped, perhaps 
> by a device which advanced the number each time it was used. Other, hand 
> written columns, list a date of build and a date of shipping as well as 
> shipping destination. Still other columns list codes which identify 
> options included on that tractor. No where does it indicate anything about 
> model year. In the very early years of GP production, there is a line 
> drawn across the page after the last tractor in the calendar year. In 1930 
> or 1931, and thereafter, the line is drawn after October 31 (the end of 
> Deere fiscal year). The line is the only indication that there was 
> anything but a continuous flow of tractors produced.
>
>
>
> There are two soft cover books which list tractor serial numbers by year. 
> One I believe was published in 1976 and the other in 1986. I have both, 
> but today I cannot find the one from 1976. I have the second (1986) in 
> front of me. It was not published by Deere, but was published with 
> permission of Deere. I have reason to believe these books were written by 
> people in the Deere Marketing Department, acting on their own. I believe 
> the books were not a Deere Publication. I believe these books were the 
> origin of most, if not all, the serial number by model year in circulation 
> today.
>
>
>
> In summary, I am convinced that the concept of 'model' year of two 
> cylinder tractors was a concoction of people writing about tractors, long 
> after the end of  two-cylinder tractor production.
>
>
>
> What do you think?
>
>
>
> Paul O
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dean VP" <deanvp at att.net>
> To: "'Antique John Deere mailing list'" 
> <antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 10:50 PM
> Subject: RE: [AJD] late B
>
>
> Paul:
>
> All of JR Hobbs books list serial number by model year. As far as an
> official JD document I don't have access to the official JD archived
> production register info so I don't know the exact way in which they are
> presented.
>
> I do know this, for example, some 1953 model year JD 60's were made in 
> 1952.
> This occurred repeatedly across all models. Another example: some Styled 
> JD
> B's for model year 1939 B's were made in late 1938. This is a good example
> because this was the model year where JD switched from unstyled to styled
> B's. A very clear distinctive difference.
>
> Dean A. Van Peursem
> Snohomish, WA 98290
>
> I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
> storeroom door
>
>
> www.deerelegacy.com
>
> http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of
> Paul O
> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 8:44 AM
> To: Antique John Deere mailing list
> Subject: Re: [AJD] late B
>
> Good comments, Mlke
> I have questons about " model year". Has anyone ever seen a Deere
> publication which provides serial numbers by "model year"?
> If such a thing exists, I would like to see it!
>
> Paul O
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Michael Ostrander" <antiquejd at fwi.com>
> To: "Antique John Deere mailing list"
> <antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 12:11 PM
> Subject: RE: [AJD] late B
>
>
> I will suggest that one of the prominent alternate lists also publish 
> based
> on Model year.  The discrepancy comes from defining the parameters of the
> model year.  A more useful demarcation might be just the serial number 
> which
> determines the appropriate part/casting etc.  The parts book for tractors
> lists the serial numbers corresponding to the part needing replacing. 
> Model
> year designations have created arbitrary values on tractors.  A prime
> example is the D that sold in Washington within the last 8 weeks.  It was
> identical in its parts and configuration but sold unrestored for more than
> twice what an identical restored tractor did during the same period.  The
> tractors were less than 400 serial numbers apart.  Take the tags off and 
> you
> could not have told any difference between the two.  Is $6000 plus the 
> cost
> of restoration truly reflective of an objective premium for identical
> tractors?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com]On Behalf Of
> Dean VP
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 11:14 AM
> To: 'Antique John Deere mailing list'
> Subject: RE: [AJD] late B
>
>
> Bill:
>
> It is interesting how serial number lists vary depending on author. JR 
> Hobbs
> lists the model year/serial number breaks as follows (See second # per 
> year
> below):
> It would be very helful to us collectors if we could get those who publish
> these serial number lists to define their reference as Model Year, like JR
> does, vs calendar year vs production year. It sure causes a lot of
> confusion.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of
> Bill Brueck
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 8:20 AM
> To: Antique John Deere mailing list
> Subject: Re: [AJD] late B
>
> Yep, that makes it a '51, Ron;.  Parts should be plenty available.  Got 
> one
> up this way about like it I may have a chance to pick up, the guy just 
> died
> a couple of months ago so there will probably be an estate sale.
> 35 1000
>
> 36 12012
>
> 37 27389
>
> 38 46175
>
> 39 60000 vs 60000
>
> 40 81600 vs 78526
>
> 41 96000 vs 96000
>
> 42 126345 vs 118721
>
> 43 143420 vs 136315
>
> 44 152862 vs 149219
>
> 45 173179 vs 166880 vs 167700(Two Cylinder Club Card)
>
> 46 183673 vs 179788
>
> 47 199744 vs 201000 vs 191303(Two Cylinder Club card)
>
> 48 216055 vs 209925
>
> 49 237346 vs 230044
>
> 50 258205 vs 253025
>
> 51 276557 vs 275242
>
> 52 299175 vs 293030
>
>
> B²
> Bill Brueck (brick)
> Chatfield, MN, USA
>
> Confusion is a higher state of knowledge than ignorance.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ronald L. Cook" <rlcook at pionet.net>
> To: "Antique John Deere mailing list"
> <antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 9:53 AM
> Subject: [AJD] late B
>
>
>>I am looking at a stuck late B.  Roll-o-matic, powr-trol, cast rear
>>centers, decent tin with the usual hack job at the stack.  Parked outside
>>in the fence row for years.  The exhaust pipe is rusted out and there is 
>>no
>
>>cover over the air stack so I fear she is a really stuck old girl.  I will
>>probably buy it if we can agree on the "right" price.  My question is: 
>>What
>
>>year production is serial number 297912?  I am thinking it is a 1951 but I
>>have no information that says so.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>>
>> Ron Cook
>> Salix, IA
>>
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