[AJD] Re: Model Year???

Guy Fay fayguyma at execpc.com
Sun May 29 11:21:09 PDT 2005 

In IH world, there are several different concepts of "Year" when it 
comes to production records. It depends on which department was 
compiling the lists, and when.

The earliest was "Season"- tractors would be produced ahead of time for 
sale before planting season. If the tractor was intended for use in 
plowing in SPring 1912, for instance, because the factory didn't work on 
tractors year around, engineering changes were made, then the tractor 
put into production, shipped, and sold in time for spring plowing. The 
factory then produced something else during the summer and fall. This 
was traditional within the farm equipment industry and lasted up into 
the point where the tractor market too off in the mid-1910s.

Calendar year was then used at the factory level for many production 
reports after the tractor markey reached the point where production was 
sustained all year round.

The finance department tracked production closely, of course, and they 
started using fiscal year- the actually sort of matched with the old 
season concept- IH's started in November.

Eventually the marketing division got into the act for various reasons- 
and being marketing folks, the numbers really don't make much sense 
sometimes!

What is interesting is comparing calender year, fiscal year, marketing 
stuff, and etc. for a particular range of serial numbers in tractors- 
sometimes you get three or four different "years".  We now in IH land 
have monthly factory serial lists, which are quite nice!

But yup, after the season concept fell apart (in some models of IH 
tractors, it lasted into the early 1930s, there was nothing related to 
"model year", such as the car world used. The tractor industry tried to 
get back into a planned obsolescence system in the mid to late 1950s 
(Deere and IH in particular, warming up old models with two tone paint, 
some minimal engineering changes per year, etc., but it wasn't really a 
success)

Guy Fay


Paul O wrote:

>
>
> Dean
>
>
>
> In my opinion, Deere never built tractors by model year. We tend to 
> think model year because we have all been brain washed by the 
> automobile industry where each year, there was a cosmetic change, if 
> not a design change, to identify model year. Automobiles also had a 
> title, recorded in state records, which specified a model year.
>
>
>
> This was not true with tractors which have no title (at least in the 
> states where I have lived). I have seen a few advertisements from the 
> 1930's, but I have never seen a Deere publication which refers to a 
> tractor as a 1932 GP or a 1933 D. The parts books will testify to the 
> fact that when Deere felt a change was needed, it was made with no 
> consideration of the calendar.
>
>
>
> I have spent time in the archives studying production records of GP 
> tractors.
>
> These records were kept in a very large book. On each page, the left 
> most column lists serial numbers. The serial numbers were ink stamped, 
> perhaps by a device which advanced the number each time it was used. 
> Other, hand written columns, list a date of build and a date of 
> shipping as well as shipping destination. Still other columns list 
> codes which identify options included on that tractor. No where does 
> it indicate anything about model year. In the very early years of GP 
> production, there is a line drawn across the page after the last 
> tractor in the calendar year. In 1930 or 1931, and thereafter, the 
> line is drawn after October 31 (the end of Deere fiscal year). The 
> line is the only indication that there was anything but a continuous 
> flow of tractors produced.
>
>
>
> There are two soft cover books which list tractor serial numbers by 
> year. One I believe was published in 1976 and the other in 1986. I 
> have both, but today I cannot find the one from 1976. I have the 
> second (1986) in front of me. It was not published by Deere, but was 
> published with permission of Deere. I have reason to believe these 
> books were written by people in the Deere Marketing Department, acting 
> on their own. I believe the books were not a Deere Publication. I 
> believe these books were the origin of most, if not all, the serial 
> number by model year in circulation today.
>
>
>
> In summary, I am convinced that the concept of 'model' year of two 
> cylinder tractors was a concoction of people writing about tractors, 
> long after the end of  two-cylinder tractor production.
>
>
>
> What do you think?
>
>
>
> Paul O
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean VP" <deanvp at att.net>
> To: "'Antique John Deere mailing list'" 
> <antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 10:50 PM
> Subject: RE: [AJD] late B
>
>
> Paul:
>
> All of JR Hobbs books list serial number by model year. As far as an
> official JD document I don't have access to the official JD archived
> production register info so I don't know the exact way in which they are
> presented.
>
> I do know this, for example, some 1953 model year JD 60's were made in 
> 1952.
> This occurred repeatedly across all models. Another example: some 
> Styled JD
> B's for model year 1939 B's were made in late 1938. This is a good 
> example
> because this was the model year where JD switched from unstyled to styled
> B's. A very clear distinctive difference.
>
> Dean A. Van Peursem
> Snohomish, WA 98290
>
> I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
> storeroom door
>
>
> www.deerelegacy.com
>
> http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of
> Paul O
> Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 8:44 AM
> To: Antique John Deere mailing list
> Subject: Re: [AJD] late B
>
> Good comments, Mlke
> I have questons about " model year". Has anyone ever seen a Deere
> publication which provides serial numbers by "model year"?
> If such a thing exists, I would like to see it!
>
> Paul O
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Ostrander" 
> <antiquejd at fwi.com>
> To: "Antique John Deere mailing list"
> <antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 12:11 PM
> Subject: RE: [AJD] late B
>
>
> I will suggest that one of the prominent alternate lists also publish 
> based
> on Model year.  The discrepancy comes from defining the parameters of the
> model year.  A more useful demarcation might be just the serial number 
> which
> determines the appropriate part/casting etc.  The parts book for tractors
> lists the serial numbers corresponding to the part needing replacing.  
> Model
> year designations have created arbitrary values on tractors.  A prime
> example is the D that sold in Washington within the last 8 weeks.  It was
> identical in its parts and configuration but sold unrestored for more 
> than
> twice what an identical restored tractor did during the same period.  The
> tractors were less than 400 serial numbers apart.  Take the tags off 
> and you
> could not have told any difference between the two.  Is $6000 plus the 
> cost
> of restoration truly reflective of an objective premium for identical
> tractors?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com]On Behalf Of
> Dean VP
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 11:14 AM
> To: 'Antique John Deere mailing list'
> Subject: RE: [AJD] late B
>
>
> Bill:
>
> It is interesting how serial number lists vary depending on author. JR 
> Hobbs
> lists the model year/serial number breaks as follows (See second # per 
> year
> below):
> It would be very helful to us collectors if we could get those who 
> publish
> these serial number lists to define their reference as Model Year, 
> like JR
> does, vs calendar year vs production year. It sure causes a lot of
> confusion.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of
> Bill Brueck
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 8:20 AM
> To: Antique John Deere mailing list
> Subject: Re: [AJD] late B
>
> Yep, that makes it a '51, Ron;.  Parts should be plenty available.  
> Got one
> up this way about like it I may have a chance to pick up, the guy just 
> died
> a couple of months ago so there will probably be an estate sale.
> 35 1000
>
> 36 12012
>
> 37 27389
>
> 38 46175
>
> 39 60000 vs 60000
>
> 40 81600 vs 78526
>
> 41 96000 vs 96000
>
> 42 126345 vs 118721
>
> 43 143420 vs 136315
>
> 44 152862 vs 149219
>
> 45 173179 vs 166880 vs 167700(Two Cylinder Club Card)
>
> 46 183673 vs 179788
>
> 47 199744 vs 201000 vs 191303(Two Cylinder Club card)
>
> 48 216055 vs 209925
>
> 49 237346 vs 230044
>
> 50 258205 vs 253025
>
> 51 276557 vs 275242
>
> 52 299175 vs 293030
>
>
> B²
> Bill Brueck (brick)
> Chatfield, MN, USA
>
> Confusion is a higher state of knowledge than ignorance.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ronald L. Cook" <rlcook at pionet.net>
> To: "Antique John Deere mailing list"
> <antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 9:53 AM
> Subject: [AJD] late B
>
>
>> I am looking at a stuck late B.  Roll-o-matic, powr-trol, cast rear
>> centers, decent tin with the usual hack job at the stack.  Parked 
>> outside
>> in the fence row for years.  The exhaust pipe is rusted out and there 
>> is no
>
>
>> cover over the air stack so I fear she is a really stuck old girl.  I 
>> will
>> probably buy it if we can agree on the "right" price.  My question 
>> is: What
>
>
>> year production is serial number 297912?  I am thinking it is a 1951 
>> but I
>> have no information that says so.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>>
>> Ron Cook
>> Salix, IA
>>
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