[AJD] Re: Model Year???

Paul O mrgp at fwi.com
Sun May 29 09:40:49 PDT 2005



Dean



In my opinion, Deere never built tractors by model year. We tend to think 
model year because we have all been brain washed by the automobile industry 
where each year, there was a cosmetic change, if not a design change, to 
identify model year. Automobiles also had a title, recorded in state 
records, which specified a model year.



This was not true with tractors which have no title (at least in the states 
where I have lived). I have seen a few advertisements from the 1930's, but I 
have never seen a Deere publication which refers to a tractor as a 1932 GP 
or a 1933 D. The parts books will testify to the fact that when Deere felt a 
change was needed, it was made with no consideration of the calendar.



I have spent time in the archives studying production records of GP 
tractors.

These records were kept in a very large book. On each page, the left most 
column lists serial numbers. The serial numbers were ink stamped, perhaps by 
a device which advanced the number each time it was used. Other, hand 
written columns, list a date of build and a date of shipping as well as 
shipping destination. Still other columns list codes which identify options 
included on that tractor. No where does it indicate anything about model 
year. In the very early years of GP production, there is a line drawn across 
the page after the last tractor in the calendar year. In 1930 or 1931, and 
thereafter, the line is drawn after October 31 (the end of Deere fiscal 
year). The line is the only indication that there was anything but a 
continuous flow of tractors produced.



There are two soft cover books which list tractor serial numbers by year. 
One I believe was published in 1976 and the other in 1986. I have both, but 
today I cannot find the one from 1976. I have the second (1986) in front of 
me. It was not published by Deere, but was published with permission of 
Deere. I have reason to believe these books were written by people in the 
Deere Marketing Department, acting on their own. I believe the books were 
not a Deere Publication. I believe these books were the origin of most, if 
not all, the serial number by model year in circulation today.



In summary, I am convinced that the concept of 'model' year of two cylinder 
tractors was a concoction of people writing about tractors, long after the 
end of  two-cylinder tractor production.



What do you think?



Paul O





----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dean VP" <deanvp at att.net>
To: "'Antique John Deere mailing list'" 
<antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 10:50 PM
Subject: RE: [AJD] late B


Paul:

All of JR Hobbs books list serial number by model year. As far as an
official JD document I don't have access to the official JD archived
production register info so I don't know the exact way in which they are
presented.

I do know this, for example, some 1953 model year JD 60's were made in 1952.
This occurred repeatedly across all models. Another example: some Styled JD
B's for model year 1939 B's were made in late 1938. This is a good example
because this was the model year where JD switched from unstyled to styled
B's. A very clear distinctive difference.

Dean A. Van Peursem
Snohomish, WA 98290

I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
storeroom door


www.deerelegacy.com

http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm



-----Original Message-----
From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of
Paul O
Sent: Saturday, May 28, 2005 8:44 AM
To: Antique John Deere mailing list
Subject: Re: [AJD] late B

Good comments, Mlke
I have questons about " model year". Has anyone ever seen a Deere
publication which provides serial numbers by "model year"?
If such a thing exists, I would like to see it!

Paul O

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Ostrander" <antiquejd at fwi.com>
To: "Antique John Deere mailing list"
<antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 12:11 PM
Subject: RE: [AJD] late B


I will suggest that one of the prominent alternate lists also publish based
on Model year.  The discrepancy comes from defining the parameters of the
model year.  A more useful demarcation might be just the serial number which
determines the appropriate part/casting etc.  The parts book for tractors
lists the serial numbers corresponding to the part needing replacing.  Model
year designations have created arbitrary values on tractors.  A prime
example is the D that sold in Washington within the last 8 weeks.  It was
identical in its parts and configuration but sold unrestored for more than
twice what an identical restored tractor did during the same period.  The
tractors were less than 400 serial numbers apart.  Take the tags off and you
could not have told any difference between the two.  Is $6000 plus the cost
of restoration truly reflective of an objective premium for identical
tractors?

-----Original Message-----
From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com]On Behalf Of
Dean VP
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 11:14 AM
To: 'Antique John Deere mailing list'
Subject: RE: [AJD] late B


Bill:

It is interesting how serial number lists vary depending on author. JR Hobbs
lists the model year/serial number breaks as follows (See second # per year
below):
It would be very helful to us collectors if we could get those who publish
these serial number lists to define their reference as Model Year, like JR
does, vs calendar year vs production year. It sure causes a lot of
confusion.


-----Original Message-----
From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of
Bill Brueck
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 8:20 AM
To: Antique John Deere mailing list
Subject: Re: [AJD] late B

Yep, that makes it a '51, Ron;.  Parts should be plenty available.  Got one
up this way about like it I may have a chance to pick up, the guy just died
a couple of months ago so there will probably be an estate sale.
35 1000

36 12012

37 27389

38 46175

39 60000 vs 60000

40 81600 vs 78526

41 96000 vs 96000

42 126345 vs 118721

43 143420 vs 136315

44 152862 vs 149219

45 173179 vs 166880 vs 167700(Two Cylinder Club Card)

46 183673 vs 179788

47 199744 vs 201000 vs 191303(Two Cylinder Club card)

48 216055 vs 209925

49 237346 vs 230044

50 258205 vs 253025

51 276557 vs 275242

52 299175 vs 293030


B²
Bill Brueck (brick)
Chatfield, MN, USA

Confusion is a higher state of knowledge than ignorance.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronald L. Cook" <rlcook at pionet.net>
To: "Antique John Deere mailing list"
<antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 9:53 AM
Subject: [AJD] late B


>I am looking at a stuck late B.  Roll-o-matic, powr-trol, cast rear
>centers, decent tin with the usual hack job at the stack.  Parked outside
>in the fence row for years.  The exhaust pipe is rusted out and there is no

>cover over the air stack so I fear she is a really stuck old girl.  I will
>probably buy it if we can agree on the "right" price.  My question is: What

>year production is serial number 297912?  I am thinking it is a 1951 but I
>have no information that says so.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Ron Cook
> Salix, IA
>
> _______________________________________________
> Antique-johndeere mailing list
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