[AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters

Sun Mar 13 17:19:22 PST 2005

I agree Dana. I sell a lot of used parts but always with a money back
guarantee, not because I believe the part is good ( I let the buyer
determine that before he buys it) but that frequently its not what he
needs(wrong Part?) .  I don't make much money on my parts but it pays for
the effort of getting them.  By the way, I have a pretty good meter for a
4 speed 420 for $50 plus shipping.
Merle
-----Original Message-----
From: "Almost-Running Deere" <deereman1000 at hotmail.com>
To: antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 22:15:49 +0000
Subject: RE: [AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters

> >From Greg's comment I think he said the offer was "your money back" 
> so that 
> is pretty good.  Most warrenty on parts are 90 days any ways which in
> not 
> much.  In the old tractor business I sort of assume there is no such
> thing 
> as a warrenty and in most cases tI never even think of it (likely my 
> problem).  Maybe I am used to poor service and shoddy dealsl but when I
> buy 
> something "new" for a 40 year old tractor and I aware that it isn't
> NOS.  If 
> the fellow stands behind the part he is selling that may be as good as
> it 
> gets.  If I want NOS I will pay for it ( I typically don't) and know
> that 
> the new part is likely inferior to the part 40 years ago.
> 
> Not trying to argue either just my opinion
> 
> Dana
> SE PA
> 
> >From: "Dean VP" <deanvp at att.net>
> >Reply-To: Antique John Deere mailing 
> >list<antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> >To: "'Antique John Deere mailing 
> >list'"<antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> >Subject: RE: [AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters
> >Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 13:07:53 -0800
> >
> >Dana:
> >
> >I think you are comparing apples and oranges.  When you receive that
> "New"
> >starter from Deere and it is defective, Deere will stand behind that
> with
> >whatever warranty they offer. However, a "New" Speed Hour meter that
> has 
> >had
> >the Borg Warner original tag removed (partially torn off in my case)
> and
> >also has been modified by a third party is now only supported by the
> seller
> >who did the modifications. I also think Borg Warner would take great
> issue
> >with it being called "New" from their perspective. All warranties and
> >support has to be assumed by the seller in this case, unless previous
> >arrangements have been made with the original manufacturer of the
> meter. .
> >
> >I'm sure JD would take issue with a JD Dealer making unauthorized
> >modifications to their "New" and warranted starter. I am 100% sure
> that
> >those unauthorized modifications would void JD's warranty and the only
> >warranty for the customer would have to be supplied by the dealer.
> Which is
> >fine as long as the customer is so notified.
> >
> >I'm not trying to start a pissing contest here. I'm only stating that
> the
> >seller could be more forthcoming by more accurately defining the
> modified
> >product and where the warranty and support is going to come from.
> >
> >"New" to me implies manufacturer's warranty.
> >
> >Dean A. Van Peursem
> >Snohomish, WA 98290
> >
> >I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
> >storeroom door
> >
> >
> >www.deerelegacy.com
> >
> >http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> >[mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf
> Of
> >Almost-Running Deere
> >Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 11:28 AM
> >To: antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com
> >Subject: RE: [AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters
> >
> >I think we all know that New Old stock (NOS) is different from new
> which is
> >different rebuilt.  New correctly describes it in my opinion.  I can
> buy a
> >new starter from Deere but it isn't NOS.
> >
> >my opinion
> >
> >Dana
> >SE PA
> >
> > >From: "Dean VP" <deanvp at att.net>
> > >Reply-To: Antique John Deere mailing
> > >list<antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > >To: "'Antique John Deere mailing
> > >list'"<antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> > >Subject: RE: [AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters
> > >Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:17:09 -0800
> > >
> > >Greg:
> > >
> > >After a long discussion with Nick, it was my understanding that
> these
> > >meters
> > >are originally made new by Borg Warner but then he modifies them to
> have 
> >a
> > >reproduction old face put on them that gives the proper RPM, MPH and
> PTO
> > >speed readouts for a specific model tractor and also has the
> original 
> >part
> > >number on them as if they were NOS from the 50's.
> > >
> > >And yes, he does describe them as New in his advertisement and not
> as 
> >NOS.
> > >It is IMHO slightly misleading as it implies an unmodified New
> Factory
> > >Meter. In other words correctly built for each tractor model at the
> > >factory.
> > >
> > >
> > >I would have preferred that he describe them as New Borg Warner
> meters,
> > >modified to be correct for the specific model tractor and then there
> > >wouldn't be any chance of a potential customer thinking that they
> might 
> >be
> > >completely new factory standard product with associated factory 
> >warranties,
> > >etc.
> > >
> > >The statements are generally correct but what is being left out is
> > >important
> > >information, in my opinion.  I suspect the meters perform as
> advertised; 
> >it
> > >is just a matter of perception or first impression that can be a bit
> > >troublesome. I suspect that the original manufacturer would not
> honor 
> >their
> > >warranty, whatever it is, on these modified products. I also suspect
> that
> > >nick will honor a warranty claim but that period or warranty is not 
> >spelled
> > >out other than satisfaction guaranteed, but no time period is
> identified.
> > >
> > >At this moment in time I see no reason to hide this information from
> > >customers or potential customers. Maybe it is a licensing or legal
> issue.
> > >Then there wouldn't be the potential for false expectations and/or
> > >incorrect
> > >first impressions.  It is the seller's responsibility to set the 
> >customers
> > >expectations to be slightly less than or equal to the actual product
> > >received.
> > >
> > >Not a terribly big issue but one that can lead to misunderstandings
> and
> > >disagreements. One where either the customer or the seller can be at
> >fault.
> > >
> > >Dean A. Van Peursem
> > >Snohomish, WA 98290
> > >
> > >I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
> > >storeroom door
> > >
> > >
> > >www.deerelegacy.com
> > >
> > >http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > >[mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On
> Behalf Of
> > >greg at theoldtractorcompany.com
> > >Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 9:32 AM
> > >To: Antique John Deere mailing list
> > >Subject: RE: [AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters
> > >
> > >A couple of things on these speed hour meters.
> > >
> > >Nick is a friend of mine and we have discussed these meters numerous
> >times
> > >over the
> > >last year or so.
> > >
> > >First off, they are not supplied by Borg Warner.
> > >Nick is attempting to offer a part that is very difficult to locate
> new.
> > >Genuine new
> > >old stock originals routinely sell in the range of $350-$600 so he
> wanted
> > >to
> > >offer a
> > >more reasonable option. Special tooling was designed and made to be
> able 
> >to
> > >disassemble these gauges and repurpose them as closer to their
> original
> > >vintage
> > >counterparts. Where necessary, they are recalibrated and I believe
> the 
> >only
> > >hourmeters
> > >that do not read 100% correctly are the 60 and 70. Calculations show
> that
> > >even these,
> > >over a 10000 hour life of the hourmeter, will read  off by only 5.5 
> >hours.
> > >He
> > >believes, as do I, that that's close enough! As if any of these will
> ever
> > >approach
> > >anywhere near 10000 hours again! The faces are made as original and 
> >install
> > >correctly.
> > >
> > >Nick's a super guy and honest to boot, imagine that. He advertises
> these
> > >meters as New
> > >and not New Old Stock. Also, he feels very strongly that if anyone
> is not
> > >satisfied he
> > >will refund their money and reverse the transaction. You can't ask
> for 
> >any
> > >more than
> > >that in my book.
> > >
> > >All in all, this is a great option to have for a part that is nearly
> > >impossible to
> > >locate otherwise unless settling for the more generic meter
> available
> > >today.
> > >It's all
> > >a question of what type of restoration a collector is involved in.
> > >
> > >So that's what I know about this subject
> > >
> > >Feel free to ask questions if need be
> > >
> > >Greg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Greg Stephen
> > >The Old Tractor Company
> > >Stephen Equipment Company
> > >PO Box 709
> > >Franktown, CO 80116
> > >303-663-5246
> > >303-468-0377 FAX<<--GREAT WAY TO REACH ME!
> > >
> > >On Tue Mar  8 11:17 , 'Dean VP' <deanvp at att.net> sent:
> > >
> > > >Dennis:
> > > >
> > > >These are the same Speed Hour meters Borg Warner sells to JD
> except the
> > > >seller (Nick Barbieri (sp?) - NY Fireman) removes the bezel and
> face 
> >and
> > > >puts on a new face which reads the proper RPM and ground speed for
> the
> > > >respective tractor. And yes the face then has the old JD part
> number on
> > >it
> > > >from the 50's, not the subbed number.
> > > >
> > > >So a better description would be NEW Borg Warner Speed Hour Meters
> with
> > > >modified faces to have correct ground speed and RPM. Not presently
> > >licensed
> > > >by JD. No modifications are made to the gearing, that I am aware
> of 
> >just
> > >the
> > > >face of the meter is matched to the tractor you want. At least not
> on 
> >the
> > > >one I purchased for a 620. Other models might require gear changes
> too.
> > > >
> > > >These read correctly as opposed to the "Universal" Speed Hour
> Meters 
> >that
> > >JD
> > > >sells. I'm not sure about all of these but if the meter and
> tractor are
> > >set
> > > >up for 1:1 gearing then the "Universal" JD meters just read
> incorrectly
> > >on
> > > >ground speed, RPM and PTO RPM, not the hour meter.
> > > >
> > > >I guess the question mostly is: do you spend $140 on a speed hour
> meter
> > >from
> > > >JD that reads the hours correctly and everything else is wrong or
> do 
> >you
> > > >spend another $100.00 + - to get it all correct.
> > > >
> > > >I'm a little disappointed in the description that Nick uses in his
> eBay
> > >ads
> > > >for these. I think he could be a little more forthcoming in the
> > >description
> > > >of what these really are. When I received my meter I was a bit
> > >disgruntled
> > > >by the tool marks on the side of the can which comes from either
> the
> > >removal
> > > >or reattachment of the bezel. On first impression I thought I had
> > >received
> > >a
> > > >refurbished meter rather than a truly new unit. An incorrect first
> > > >impression.
> > > >
> > > >In checking around, I found out I was going to spend as much or
> more on
> > > >refurbishing my original meter vs buying one of these. The
> advantage of
> > > >refurbishing an original is that the original hours are maintained
> if
> > >they
> > > >are truly a reflection of actual hours.  I'm not sure one can
> depend on
> > >that
> > > >very much.
> > > >
> > > >Dean A. Van Peursem
> > > >Snohomish, WA 98290
> > > >
> > > >I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to
> the
> > > >storeroom door
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >www.deerelegacy.com
> > > >
> > > >http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > >
> >
> >[antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com','','','')">antiq
> ue-jo
> > >hndeere-
> > >bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of
> > > >Cotton Family
> > > >Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 7:06 PM
> > > >To: 'Antique John Deere mailing list'
> > > >Subject: RE: [AJD] test and update
> > > >
> > > >I actually like the other.... Had an image of an IGOR type person
> > > >talking...
> > > >Funny what prescription pain drugs do for you...
> > > >
> > > >On another note has anybody seen the new speed hour meters that
> are on
> > > >eBay? I emailed the seller and they are new productions.. Wonder
> if
> > > >Stuart Warner made him a batch of them..
> > > >http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnbfd330
> > > >
> > > >Dennis
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> > >
> >
> >[antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com','','','')">antiq
> ue-jo
> > >hndeere-
> > >bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf
> > > >Of Kenneth Jones
> > > >Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 8:09 PM
> > > >To: Antique John Deere mailing list
> > > >Subject: Re: [AJD] test and update
> > > >
> > > >Dennis
> > > >
> > > >      Last line should have read, " Hope that all is well now "
> > > >
> > > >      Sorry for the retired finger typing...
> > > >
> > > >Ken Jones
> > > >
> > > >Kenneth Jones kenejons61 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > >Dennis,
> > > >
> > > >Glad to hear that you got that thing out in the real world. Hope
> ass is
> > > >weel now !!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Ken Jones
> > > >
> > > >Cotton Family wrote:
> > > >Well I am alive after giving birth to a 4mm stone... and I have
> had
> > > >problems posting to the list. Just checking.....
> > > >
> > > >Dennis
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
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> > > >
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