[AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters

[Almost-Running Deere]

I think we all know that New Old stock (NOS) is different from new which is 
different rebuilt.  New correctly describes it in my opinion.  I can buy a 
new starter from Deere but it isn't NOS.

my opinion

Dana
SE PA

>From: "Dean VP" <deanvp at att.net>
>Reply-To: Antique John Deere mailing 
>list<antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>To: "'Antique John Deere mailing 
>list'"<antique-johndeere at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>Subject: RE: [AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters
>Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:17:09 -0800
>
>Greg:
>
>After a long discussion with Nick, it was my understanding that these 
>meters
>are originally made new by Borg Warner but then he modifies them to have a
>reproduction old face put on them that gives the proper RPM, MPH and PTO
>speed readouts for a specific model tractor and also has the original part
>number on them as if they were NOS from the 50's.
>
>And yes, he does describe them as New in his advertisement and not as NOS.
>It is IMHO slightly misleading as it implies an unmodified New Factory
>Meter. In other words correctly built for each tractor model at the 
>factory.
>
>
>I would have preferred that he describe them as New Borg Warner meters,
>modified to be correct for the specific model tractor and then there
>wouldn't be any chance of a potential customer thinking that they might be
>completely new factory standard product with associated factory warranties,
>etc.
>
>The statements are generally correct but what is being left out is 
>important
>information, in my opinion.  I suspect the meters perform as advertised; it
>is just a matter of perception or first impression that can be a bit
>troublesome. I suspect that the original manufacturer would not honor their
>warranty, whatever it is, on these modified products. I also suspect that
>nick will honor a warranty claim but that period or warranty is not spelled
>out other than satisfaction guaranteed, but no time period is identified.
>
>At this moment in time I see no reason to hide this information from
>customers or potential customers. Maybe it is a licensing or legal issue.
>Then there wouldn't be the potential for false expectations and/or 
>incorrect
>first impressions.  It is the seller's responsibility to set the customers
>expectations to be slightly less than or equal to the actual product
>received.
>
>Not a terribly big issue but one that can lead to misunderstandings and
>disagreements. One where either the customer or the seller can be at fault.
>
>Dean A. Van Peursem
>Snohomish, WA 98290
>
>I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
>storeroom door
>
>
>www.deerelegacy.com
>
>http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>[mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of
>greg at theoldtractorcompany.com
>Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 9:32 AM
>To: Antique John Deere mailing list
>Subject: RE: [AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters
>
>A couple of things on these speed hour meters.
>
>Nick is a friend of mine and we have discussed these meters numerous times
>over the
>last year or so.
>
>First off, they are not supplied by Borg Warner.
>Nick is attempting to offer a part that is very difficult to locate new.
>Genuine new
>old stock originals routinely sell in the range of $350-$600 so he wanted 
>to
>offer a
>more reasonable option. Special tooling was designed and made to be able to
>disassemble these gauges and repurpose them as closer to their original
>vintage
>counterparts. Where necessary, they are recalibrated and I believe the only
>hourmeters
>that do not read 100% correctly are the 60 and 70. Calculations show that
>even these,
>over a 10000 hour life of the hourmeter, will read  off by only 5.5 hours.
>He
>believes, as do I, that that's close enough! As if any of these will ever
>approach
>anywhere near 10000 hours again! The faces are made as original and install
>correctly.
>
>Nick's a super guy and honest to boot, imagine that. He advertises these
>meters as New
>and not New Old Stock. Also, he feels very strongly that if anyone is not
>satisfied he
>will refund their money and reverse the transaction. You can't ask for any
>more than
>that in my book.
>
>All in all, this is a great option to have for a part that is nearly
>impossible to
>locate otherwise unless settling for the more generic meter available 
>today.
>It's all
>a question of what type of restoration a collector is involved in.
>
>So that's what I know about this subject
>
>Feel free to ask questions if need be
>
>Greg
>
>
>
>
>Greg Stephen
>The Old Tractor Company
>Stephen Equipment Company
>PO Box 709
>Franktown, CO 80116
>303-663-5246
>303-468-0377 FAX<<--GREAT WAY TO REACH ME!
>
>On Tue Mar  8 11:17 , 'Dean VP' <deanvp at att.net> sent:
>
> >Dennis:
> >
> >These are the same Speed Hour meters Borg Warner sells to JD except the
> >seller (Nick Barbieri (sp?) - NY Fireman) removes the bezel and face and
> >puts on a new face which reads the proper RPM and ground speed for the
> >respective tractor. And yes the face then has the old JD part number on 
>it
> >from the 50's, not the subbed number.
> >
> >So a better description would be NEW Borg Warner Speed Hour Meters with
> >modified faces to have correct ground speed and RPM. Not presently 
>licensed
> >by JD. No modifications are made to the gearing, that I am aware of just
>the
> >face of the meter is matched to the tractor you want. At least not on the
> >one I purchased for a 620. Other models might require gear changes too.
> >
> >These read correctly as opposed to the "Universal" Speed Hour Meters that
>JD
> >sells. I'm not sure about all of these but if the meter and tractor are 
>set
> >up for 1:1 gearing then the "Universal" JD meters just read incorrectly 
>on
> >ground speed, RPM and PTO RPM, not the hour meter.
> >
> >I guess the question mostly is: do you spend $140 on a speed hour meter
>from
> >JD that reads the hours correctly and everything else is wrong or do you
> >spend another $100.00 + - to get it all correct.
> >
> >I'm a little disappointed in the description that Nick uses in his eBay 
>ads
> >for these. I think he could be a little more forthcoming in the 
>description
> >of what these really are. When I received my meter I was a bit 
>disgruntled
> >by the tool marks on the side of the can which comes from either the
>removal
> >or reattachment of the bezel. On first impression I thought I had 
>received
>a
> >refurbished meter rather than a truly new unit. An incorrect first
> >impression.
> >
> >In checking around, I found out I was going to spend as much or more on
> >refurbishing my original meter vs buying one of these. The advantage of
> >refurbishing an original is that the original hours are maintained if 
>they
> >are truly a reflection of actual hours.  I'm not sure one can depend on
>that
> >very much.
> >
> >Dean A. Van Peursem
> >Snohomish, WA 98290
> >
> >I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
> >storeroom door
> >
> >
> >www.deerelegacy.com
> >
> >http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> >[antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com','','','')">antique-jo
>hndeere-
>bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of
> >Cotton Family
> >Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 7:06 PM
> >To: 'Antique John Deere mailing list'
> >Subject: RE: [AJD] test and update
> >
> >I actually like the other.... Had an image of an IGOR type person
> >talking...
> >Funny what prescription pain drugs do for you...
> >
> >On another note has anybody seen the new speed hour meters that are on
> >eBay? I emailed the seller and they are new productions.. Wonder if
> >Stuart Warner made him a batch of them..
> >http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnbfd330
> >
> >Dennis
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> >[antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com','','','')">antique-jo
>hndeere-
>bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf
> >Of Kenneth Jones
> >Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 8:09 PM
> >To: Antique John Deere mailing list
> >Subject: Re: [AJD] test and update
> >
> >Dennis
> >
> >      Last line should have read, " Hope that all is well now "
> >
> >      Sorry for the retired finger typing...
> >
> >Ken Jones
> >
> >Kenneth Jones kenejons61 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Dennis,
> >
> >Glad to hear that you got that thing out in the real world. Hope ass is
> >weel now !!
> >
> >
> >Ken Jones
> >
> >Cotton Family wrote:
> >Well I am alive after giving birth to a 4mm stone... and I have had
> >problems posting to the list. Just checking.....
> >
> >Dennis
> >
> >
> >
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