[AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters

Dean VP deanvp at att.net
Fri Mar 11 10:17:09 PST 2005 

Greg:

After a long discussion with Nick, it was my understanding that these meters
are originally made new by Borg Warner but then he modifies them to have a
reproduction old face put on them that gives the proper RPM, MPH and PTO
speed readouts for a specific model tractor and also has the original part
number on them as if they were NOS from the 50's. 

And yes, he does describe them as New in his advertisement and not as NOS.
It is IMHO slightly misleading as it implies an unmodified New Factory
Meter. In other words correctly built for each tractor model at the factory.


I would have preferred that he describe them as New Borg Warner meters,
modified to be correct for the specific model tractor and then there
wouldn't be any chance of a potential customer thinking that they might be
completely new factory standard product with associated factory warranties,
etc.
 
The statements are generally correct but what is being left out is important
information, in my opinion.  I suspect the meters perform as advertised; it
is just a matter of perception or first impression that can be a bit
troublesome. I suspect that the original manufacturer would not honor their
warranty, whatever it is, on these modified products. I also suspect that
nick will honor a warranty claim but that period or warranty is not spelled
out other than satisfaction guaranteed, but no time period is identified.

At this moment in time I see no reason to hide this information from
customers or potential customers. Maybe it is a licensing or legal issue.
Then there wouldn't be the potential for false expectations and/or incorrect
first impressions.  It is the seller's responsibility to set the customers
expectations to be slightly less than or equal to the actual product
received. 

Not a terribly big issue but one that can lead to misunderstandings and
disagreements. One where either the customer or the seller can be at fault. 

Dean A. Van Peursem
Snohomish, WA 98290

I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
storeroom door 


www.deerelegacy.com

http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm



-----Original Message-----
From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of
greg at theoldtractorcompany.com
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 9:32 AM
To: Antique John Deere mailing list
Subject: RE: [AJD] INFO- Speed Hour Meters

A couple of things on these speed hour meters.

Nick is a friend of mine and we have discussed these meters numerous times
over the 
last year or so.

First off, they are not supplied by Borg Warner.
Nick is attempting to offer a part that is very difficult to locate new.
Genuine new 
old stock originals routinely sell in the range of $350-$600 so he wanted to
offer a 
more reasonable option. Special tooling was designed and made to be able to 
disassemble these gauges and repurpose them as closer to their original
vintage 
counterparts. Where necessary, they are recalibrated and I believe the only
hourmeters 
that do not read 100% correctly are the 60 and 70. Calculations show that
even these, 
over a 10000 hour life of the hourmeter, will read  off by only 5.5 hours.
He 
believes, as do I, that that's close enough! As if any of these will ever
approach 
anywhere near 10000 hours again! The faces are made as original and install
correctly.

Nick's a super guy and honest to boot, imagine that. He advertises these
meters as New 
and not New Old Stock. Also, he feels very strongly that if anyone is not
satisfied he 
will refund their money and reverse the transaction. You can't ask for any
more than 
that in my book.

All in all, this is a great option to have for a part that is nearly
impossible to 
locate otherwise unless settling for the more generic meter available today.
It's all 
a question of what type of restoration a collector is involved in.

So that's what I know about this subject

Feel free to ask questions if need be

Greg




Greg Stephen
The Old Tractor Company
Stephen Equipment Company
PO Box 709
Franktown, CO 80116
303-663-5246
303-468-0377 FAX<<--GREAT WAY TO REACH ME!

On Tue Mar  8 11:17 , 'Dean VP' <deanvp at att.net> sent:

>Dennis:
>
>These are the same Speed Hour meters Borg Warner sells to JD except the
>seller (Nick Barbieri (sp?) - NY Fireman) removes the bezel and face and
>puts on a new face which reads the proper RPM and ground speed for the
>respective tractor. And yes the face then has the old JD part number on it
>from the 50's, not the subbed number. 
>
>So a better description would be NEW Borg Warner Speed Hour Meters with
>modified faces to have correct ground speed and RPM. Not presently licensed
>by JD. No modifications are made to the gearing, that I am aware of just
the
>face of the meter is matched to the tractor you want. At least not on the
>one I purchased for a 620. Other models might require gear changes too. 
>
>These read correctly as opposed to the "Universal" Speed Hour Meters that
JD
>sells. I'm not sure about all of these but if the meter and tractor are set
>up for 1:1 gearing then the "Universal" JD meters just read incorrectly on
>ground speed, RPM and PTO RPM, not the hour meter. 
>
>I guess the question mostly is: do you spend $140 on a speed hour meter
from
>JD that reads the hours correctly and everything else is wrong or do you
>spend another $100.00 + - to get it all correct. 
>
>I'm a little disappointed in the description that Nick uses in his eBay ads
>for these. I think he could be a little more forthcoming in the description
>of what these really are. When I received my meter I was a bit disgruntled
>by the tool marks on the side of the can which comes from either the
removal
>or reattachment of the bezel. On first impression I thought I had received
a
>refurbished meter rather than a truly new unit. An incorrect first
>impression.
>
>In checking around, I found out I was going to spend as much or more on
>refurbishing my original meter vs buying one of these. The advantage of
>refurbishing an original is that the original hours are maintained if they
>are truly a reflection of actual hours.  I'm not sure one can depend on
that
>very much. 
>
>Dean A. Van Peursem
>Snohomish, WA 98290
>
>I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
>storeroom door 
>
>
>www.deerelegacy.com
>
>http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>[antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com','','','')">antique-jo
hndeere-
bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of
>Cotton Family
>Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 7:06 PM
>To: 'Antique John Deere mailing list'
>Subject: RE: [AJD] test and update
>
>I actually like the other.... Had an image of an IGOR type person
>talking...
>Funny what prescription pain drugs do for you...
>
>On another note has anybody seen the new speed hour meters that are on
>eBay? I emailed the seller and they are new productions.. Wonder if
>Stuart Warner made him a batch of them..
>http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnbfd330
>
>Dennis
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>[antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com','','','')">antique-jo
hndeere-
bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf
>Of Kenneth Jones
>Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 8:09 PM
>To: Antique John Deere mailing list
>Subject: Re: [AJD] test and update
>
>Dennis
> 
>      Last line should have read, " Hope that all is well now "   
> 
>      Sorry for the retired finger typing...
> 
>Ken Jones
>
>Kenneth Jones kenejons61 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>Dennis, 
>
>Glad to hear that you got that thing out in the real world. Hope ass is
>weel now !!
>
>
>Ken Jones
>
>Cotton Family wrote:
>Well I am alive after giving birth to a 4mm stone... and I have had
>problems posting to the list. Just checking.....
>
>Dennis
>
>
>
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