[AJD] JD Manual scans on CD

Kevin Smolkowski kev at smolkowski.com
Sun Mar 6 11:57:32 PST 2005


I reproduce John Deere Model R pony motor pistons.   Since I did not pay
Deere to license their piston design, does that mean I am stealing 
it?    Is it only
OK because Deere no longer makes the parts, or because nobody else has a
bunch of pony pistons and I am not making them less valuable.

Why is copying a non-copywrited manual stealing, yet making an exact 
duplicate
of a hard to find part not stealing?


Louis wrote:

>Dean,
>
>I am with you!!  If these other guys had produced something at their
>cost and intellect, then had someone come along and make a cheap
>knock-off, they would change their tune real fast.
>
>Bottom line: Wrong is wrong.  These people making copies and selling
>them are stealing.  It is not the same as lending a your shop manual to
>a buddy.  Your buddy is hopefully going to give you back your manual.
>Plus, this is most likely done without the exchange of money.  Where
>this guy is taking something that is copyrighted and protected and then
>copying it.  He has no financial risk involved, other than the cost of a
>CD.  So go ahead and try to justify how this is right.  Remember when
>you have to justify something, it usually isn't right!
>
>Like Dean, said, it makes our legitimate copies worthless.  Then people
>question them when we do want to sell them.  I have 4 original copies of
>DB1293, I can't sell them right know.  I won't get what they are worth,
>because this other guy is selling pirated copies, below the original
>selling price.  
>
>Chris, I contacted Deere a few weeks ago and reported these copies.  You
>can't report it directly to ebay if it isn't your trademark, copyright,
>etc...  
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>[mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf
>Of Dean VP
>Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 8:02 PM
>To: 'Antique John Deere mailing list'
>Subject: RE: [AJD] JD Manual scans on CD
>
>
>Ron:
>
>It is my understanding that JD hired a consultant who recommended the
>discontinuance of the Vintage CD's. I can almost see the paragraph that
>was written.
>
>"DB 1293 JD has $1400 (at recommended new prices) worth of Parts
>Catalogs on it and you are selling it for $75.00. If you discontinue the
>CD's, look at how much more money you can make selling CD's per Parts
>Catalog at a minimum of $30 each with some higher priced. Paper manuals
>can be priced even higher."
>
>I question whether any consideration was given to whether we would be
>willing to pay it or could afford to. Or how much extra labor was
>required to make custom CD's "to order" rather than sell a standard
>product that could be made in volume. Almost reminds me of a "make work"
>situation. Then I suppose the legal staff was increased to police the
>homemade copies that became prevalent due to JD's extraordinarily high
>prices. Seems like a circular effort to me. 
>
>I too am able to distinguish the difference between making a copy for a
>friend to use at no cost vs making copies for commercial sale. Maybe
>that is called "situational ethics". Don't know for sure. 
>
>But, having spent a career in a business where we had to protect our
>intellection property, I sure can understand the manufacturer's point of
>view. On a more personal basis in this situation, I have spent the $75
>each to get originals when they were still for sale. It bothers me a bit
>to see these unauthorized copies sold for much less than the originals
>w/o compensation to the originator and it also degrades the value of my
>original investment. Bottom line is I fall on the side of:
>
>"It just isn't right"
>
>Dean A. Van Peursem
>Snohomish, WA 98290
>
>I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
>storeroom door 
>
>
>www.deerelegacy.com
>
>http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>[mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf
>Of Ronald L. Cook
>Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 3:43 PM
>To: Antique John Deere mailing list
>Subject: Re: [AJD] JD Manual scans on CD
>
>Dean,
>	If you took a look at my bank account you would certainly say,
>"Ron 
>just isn't good at business".  However, if I had a product that I could 
>promote and supply that is in demand, I might raise the price a little. 
>  Just a little.  Not enough to upset the newcomers or the old 
>customers.  I'll be darned if I would just up and quit the product.  The
>
>market has shown the demand for the Vintage CD's.  They always go for 
>more than Deere sold them for.  Even the copies.  Screwy, isn't it?
>	I guess if I had my "druthers", I would like the original hard
>copy of 
>a manual and a copy on the computer.  There is something I just like 
>about flipping back and forth between pages.  Seems easier to find 
>things.  Now, printing a copy to take in the shop and not worry about 
>the greasy fingerprints, is very handy.  I do that.  I don't have adobe 
>ver 7, but I do use ver 6.  It is pretty good.
>
>Ron Cook
>Salix, IA
>
>
>Dean VP wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Ron:
>>
>>JD's pricing sure has created the opportunity. Discontinuing selling 
>>the Vintage CD's sure did.
>>
>>I tended to prefer the paper manuals until I became familiar with 
>>using
>>    
>>
>the
>  
>
>>CD's. Now I prefer the CD's as I find the section I want, print it out
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>and take it to the shop and I don't care if I get the pages all 
>>greasy.  Adobe Reader ver 6 and 7 sure have improved the access to the
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>data on these
>>    
>>
>CD's.
>  
>
>>Dean A. Van Peursem
>>Snohomish, WA 98290
>>
>>I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the 
>>storeroom door
>>
>>
>>www.deerelegacy.com
>>
>>http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>[mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>Of Ronald L. Cook
>>Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 10:34 AM
>>To: Antique John Deere mailing list
>>Subject: Re: [AJD] JD Manual scans on CD
>>
>>I think Deere's pricing has caused it.  Somehow it seems to always end
>>up that the big buck people get the best no matter what the hobby is 
>>because they can afford it.  Deere no longer caters to the masses.
>>    
>>
>They 
>  
>
>>want the doctors, lawyers, and indian chiefs with expo class stuff.
>>    
>>
>My 
>  
>
>>personal tastes are against that "expo" class.  I just can't see a
>>    
>>
>"wet 
>  
>
>>look, chrome stacked, armor-all tires" tractor making sense and really
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>do not like them.  I have watched people trying to start their
>>    
>>
>beautiful 
>  
>
>>open fan-shafted Model A and it was apparent they had never been 
>>involved with any kind of engine, let alone a tractor.  They just paid
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>for a trophey winning restoration.  Made me bust out laughing.  I am
>>    
>>
>not 
>  
>
>>trying to insult anyone here.  Just stating my opinion.  However, I am
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>probably a minority.  The "working class" tractors probably do not
>>    
>>
>cost 
>  
>
>>as much to end up with.  It is just economics. To me, buying a CD copy
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>for cheap is not much different than borrowing someone's manual to use
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>and probably better than IT manuals.  I do prefer Deere's paper
>>    
>>
>manuals 
>  
>
>>and original if I can get them but really see nothing wrong with 
>>offering a substitute.  It will not be as good a quality and will seek
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>its own level and trying to work from some thing stored on a computer 
>>will for sure drive you nuts.
>>
>>Ron Cook
>>Salix, IA
>>
>>Dean VP wrote:
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Well, I wondered how long it was going to take before someone tried 
>>>this. Seller on eBay has scanned JD's Paper manuals and is now selling
>>>      
>>>
>
>  
>
>>>them on eBay. Seller has 4 different scanned CD's on now.
>>>
>>>Look at eBay auction:  3879451357
>>>
>>>Then click on "All Items for sale by this seller"
>>>
>>>I have mixed emotions about this. At one time I was told that JD's 
>>>paper manuals are not copyrighted. If that is true then I see no 
>>>reason why this is illegal unless JD already has the same manual on CD
>>>      
>>>
>
>  
>
>>>this is
>>>      
>>>
>>copyrighted.
>>
>>    
>>
>>>But..... JD still sells these CD versions of the paper manuals on a 
>>>custom basis.  I've not purchased one of the current custom CD's from 
>>>JD so I
>>>      
>>>
>>don't
>>
>>    
>>
>>>know if their custom CD's are copyrighted or not.
>>>
>>>I have mixed emotions about this practice. Something tells me it is 
>>>unethical and maybe even illegal. But JD sure has created a price 
>>>umbrella to entice this underground cottage industry.
>>>
>>>What do you guys think?
>>>
>>>Dean A. Van Peursem
>>>Snohomish, WA 98290
>>>
>>>I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the 
>>>storeroom door
>>>
>>>
>>>www.deerelegacy.com
>>>
>>>http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
>>>      
>>>
>>
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>>
>
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