[AJD] JD Manual scans on CD

Sun Mar 6 05:01:08 PST 2005

Dean,

I am with you!!  If these other guys had produced something at their
cost and intellect, then had someone come along and make a cheap
knock-off, they would change their tune real fast.

Bottom line: Wrong is wrong.  These people making copies and selling
them are stealing.  It is not the same as lending a your shop manual to
a buddy.  Your buddy is hopefully going to give you back your manual.
Plus, this is most likely done without the exchange of money.  Where
this guy is taking something that is copyrighted and protected and then
copying it.  He has no financial risk involved, other than the cost of a
CD.  So go ahead and try to justify how this is right.  Remember when
you have to justify something, it usually isn't right!

Like Dean, said, it makes our legitimate copies worthless.  Then people
question them when we do want to sell them.  I have 4 original copies of
DB1293, I can't sell them right know.  I won't get what they are worth,
because this other guy is selling pirated copies, below the original
selling price.  

Chris, I contacted Deere a few weeks ago and reported these copies.  You
can't report it directly to ebay if it isn't your trademark, copyright,
etc...  

-----Original Message-----
From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf
Of Dean VP
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 8:02 PM
To: 'Antique John Deere mailing list'
Subject: RE: [AJD] JD Manual scans on CD

Ron:

It is my understanding that JD hired a consultant who recommended the
discontinuance of the Vintage CD's. I can almost see the paragraph that
was written.

"DB 1293 JD has $1400 (at recommended new prices) worth of Parts
Catalogs on it and you are selling it for $75.00. If you discontinue the
CD's, look at how much more money you can make selling CD's per Parts
Catalog at a minimum of $30 each with some higher priced. Paper manuals
can be priced even higher."

I question whether any consideration was given to whether we would be
willing to pay it or could afford to. Or how much extra labor was
required to make custom CD's "to order" rather than sell a standard
product that could be made in volume. Almost reminds me of a "make work"
situation. Then I suppose the legal staff was increased to police the
homemade copies that became prevalent due to JD's extraordinarily high
prices. Seems like a circular effort to me. 

I too am able to distinguish the difference between making a copy for a
friend to use at no cost vs making copies for commercial sale. Maybe
that is called "situational ethics". Don't know for sure. 

But, having spent a career in a business where we had to protect our
intellection property, I sure can understand the manufacturer's point of
view. On a more personal basis in this situation, I have spent the $75
each to get originals when they were still for sale. It bothers me a bit
to see these unauthorized copies sold for much less than the originals
w/o compensation to the originator and it also degrades the value of my
original investment. Bottom line is I fall on the side of:

"It just isn't right"

Dean A. Van Peursem
Snohomish, WA 98290

I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the
storeroom door 

www.deerelegacy.com

http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
[mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf
Of Ronald L. Cook
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 3:43 PM
To: Antique John Deere mailing list
Subject: Re: [AJD] JD Manual scans on CD

Dean,
	If you took a look at my bank account you would certainly say,
"Ron 
just isn't good at business".  However, if I had a product that I could 
promote and supply that is in demand, I might raise the price a little. 
  Just a little.  Not enough to upset the newcomers or the old 
customers.  I'll be darned if I would just up and quit the product.  The

market has shown the demand for the Vintage CD's.  They always go for 
more than Deere sold them for.  Even the copies.  Screwy, isn't it?
	I guess if I had my "druthers", I would like the original hard
copy of 
a manual and a copy on the computer.  There is something I just like 
about flipping back and forth between pages.  Seems easier to find 
things.  Now, printing a copy to take in the shop and not worry about 
the greasy fingerprints, is very handy.  I do that.  I don't have adobe 
ver 7, but I do use ver 6.  It is pretty good.

Ron Cook
Salix, IA

Dean VP wrote:

> Ron:
> 
> JD's pricing sure has created the opportunity. Discontinuing selling 
> the Vintage CD's sure did.
> 
> I tended to prefer the paper manuals until I became familiar with 
> using
the
> CD's. Now I prefer the CD's as I find the section I want, print it out

> and take it to the shop and I don't care if I get the pages all 
> greasy.  Adobe Reader ver 6 and 7 sure have improved the access to the

> data on these
CD's.
> 
> 
> Dean A. Van Peursem
> Snohomish, WA 98290
> 
> I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the 
> storeroom door
> 
> 
> www.deerelegacy.com
> 
> http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:antique-johndeere-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf

> Of Ronald L. Cook
> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 10:34 AM
> To: Antique John Deere mailing list
> Subject: Re: [AJD] JD Manual scans on CD
> 
> I think Deere's pricing has caused it.  Somehow it seems to always end
> up that the big buck people get the best no matter what the hobby is 
> because they can afford it.  Deere no longer caters to the masses.
They 
> want the doctors, lawyers, and indian chiefs with expo class stuff.
My 
> personal tastes are against that "expo" class.  I just can't see a
"wet 
> look, chrome stacked, armor-all tires" tractor making sense and really

> do not like them.  I have watched people trying to start their
beautiful 
> open fan-shafted Model A and it was apparent they had never been 
> involved with any kind of engine, let alone a tractor.  They just paid

> for a trophey winning restoration.  Made me bust out laughing.  I am
not 
> trying to insult anyone here.  Just stating my opinion.  However, I am

> probably a minority.  The "working class" tractors probably do not
cost 
> as much to end up with.  It is just economics. To me, buying a CD copy

> for cheap is not much different than borrowing someone's manual to use

> and probably better than IT manuals.  I do prefer Deere's paper
manuals 
> and original if I can get them but really see nothing wrong with 
> offering a substitute.  It will not be as good a quality and will seek

> its own level and trying to work from some thing stored on a computer 
> will for sure drive you nuts.
> 
> Ron Cook
> Salix, IA
> 
> Dean VP wrote:
> 
> 
>>Well, I wondered how long it was going to take before someone tried 
>>this. Seller on eBay has scanned JD's Paper manuals and is now selling

>>them on eBay. Seller has 4 different scanned CD's on now.
>>
>>Look at eBay auction:  3879451357
>>
>>Then click on "All Items for sale by this seller"
>>
>>I have mixed emotions about this. At one time I was told that JD's 
>>paper manuals are not copyrighted. If that is true then I see no 
>>reason why this is illegal unless JD already has the same manual on CD

>>this is
> 
> copyrighted.
> 
>>But..... JD still sells these CD versions of the paper manuals on a 
>>custom basis.  I've not purchased one of the current custom CD's from 
>>JD so I
> 
> don't
> 
>>know if their custom CD's are copyrighted or not.
>>
>>I have mixed emotions about this practice. Something tells me it is 
>>unethical and maybe even illegal. But JD sure has created a price 
>>umbrella to entice this underground cottage industry.
>>
>>What do you guys think?
>>
>>Dean A. Van Peursem
>>Snohomish, WA 98290
>>
>>I'm a walking storeroom of facts..... I've just lost the key to the 
>>storeroom door
>>
>>
>>www.deerelegacy.com
>>
>>http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm
> 
> 
> 
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