[AT] OOOPS - Do as I say not as I do - now ramblingofftopic...heating
charlie hill
chill8 at cox.net
Thu Jul 28 18:34:48 PDT 2005
I guess that means I can't get one like yours George! LOL.
The problem with building odd ball systems "for lack of a better term" is
that if you are borrowing money the odd ball systems freak out the
appraisers and bankers. Or actually they freak out the appraisers ( I am
one). The bankers wouldn't know the difference if we didn't tell them.
However, I'm convienced that there are a lot of better ways to do HVAC than
the standard, undersized heat pumps that the power companies recommend and
the rank and file HVAC contractors are conditioned to use.
Charlie
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Willer" <gwill at toast.net>
To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [AT] OOOPS - Do as I say not as I do - now
ramblingofftopic...heating
> Charlie,
>
> The system was assembled by U.S.Power from York, PA (no longer in
> business) using Trane equipment. I had to deal through a local dealer (no
> longer in business). The design was mostly mine. Actually, the
> refrigeration end is very simple compared to an air to air system or the
> ductwork distribution system. All the interior sheet metal work I
> designed and built on site from sheet stock. Kind of a fun job for a
> change of pace. If I were doing it again, I'd just buy components and
> have at it!
>
> George
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "charlie hill" <chill8 at cox.net>
> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group"
> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [AT] OOOPS - Do as I say not as I do - now rambling
> offtopic...heating
>
>
>> Sure George. Like I said, I'm trying to soak up information.
>> Who manufactured your system or is it homebuilt? Who designed it?
>>
>> Charlie
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "George Willer" <gwill at toast.net>
>> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group"
>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 5:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AT] OOOPS - Do as I say not as I do - now rambling off
>> topic...heating
>>
>>
>>> Charlie,
>>>
>>> We switched over to building nearly all total electric homes in 1966,
>>> and only built a couple with fossil fueled heating systems since. Our
>>> own home with gas fired hot water heat was one of the last gas homes we
>>> built... and it was a total loss in a fire in 1972 when it was 7 years
>>> old, possibly from a gas leak. The replacement using some of the
>>> original foundation and of the same total square footage (about 2000)
>>> was heated by electric radiant ceilings... much more economical than the
>>> gas had been.
>>>
>>> Our present home was built in 1991and is nearly twice as large, (3800
>>> Sq.Ft.) with an unusual heat pump. It is ground source with a twist...
>>> it has the freon running directly through 20 100' coils buried in a
>>> large pit. Our water is heated by the heat pump too... directly or with
>>> waste heat during the cooling cycle. The huge advantage to this system
>>> is the elimination of any heat exchanger or pumping losses on the ground
>>> source side. Another advantage that would be difficult to measure but
>>> has to be there... the ground in the pit is a huge heat sink. Some of
>>> the waste heat from the cooling cycle is still there for recovery during
>>> the heating cycle. Except for inflation this home is even less expensive
>>> to heat and cool than the last, much smaller one was.
>>>
>>> Are you ready for a lecture on heating efficiency? C.O.P. of heat pumps
>>> compared to performance of fuel fired furnaces?
>>>
>>> George Willer
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "charlie hill" <chill8 at cox.net>
>>> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group"
>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:46 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AT] OOOPS - Do as I say not as I do - now rambling off
>>> topic
>>>
>>>
>>>> Roger, do you recall how much more it cost (percentage wise) than a
>>>> normal air to air heat pump would have been for your house. We are
>>>> thinking about building a place and I'm trying to absorb every little
>>>> bit of information I can.
>>>>
>>>> Charlie
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Roger Welsch" <captneb at micrord.com>
>>>> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group"
>>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 11:12 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] OOOPS - Do as I say not as I do - now rambling off
>>>> topic
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> One of the few really smart things we did when we moved out here was
>>>>> to
>>>>> install a geothermal heat pump for both heating and cooling. We have
>>>>> a lot
>>>>> of subsurface water...we are on sand and about 1000 yards from the
>>>>> Loup
>>>>> River...so water is not a problem. It's one thing to cool with
>>>>> hundred
>>>>> degree air in the summer and heat with -20 degree air in the winter,
>>>>> but
>>>>> it's quite another, we find, to use 60 degree water for both. A
>>>>> closed
>>>>> coolant subsurface loop does the same thing without pulling up the
>>>>> water but
>>>>> we find we use very little water in both heating and cooling our huge
>>>>> old
>>>>> house even pumping and dumping (we use it to water the lawn and trees,
>>>>> so it
>>>>> gets another use before making a very small wet spot below the yard.
>>>>> I
>>>>> highly recommend the system.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Larry D. Goss" <rlgoss at evansville.net>
>>>>> To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'"
>>>>> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 9:44 AM
>>>>> Subject: RE: [AT] OOOPS - Do as I say not as I do - now rambling off
>>>>> topic
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You're on the right track to eliminate all natural gas in your house,
>>>>>> Farmer. When we moved into this house 16 years ago, I was not
>>>>>> looking
>>>>>> forward to the utility bills, but I was mildly shocked to find that
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> all-electric solution for heating, cooling, and cooking saved us
>>>>>> money.
>>>>>> This house is over twice the size of the one we moved out of, but the
>>>>>> utility bills are lower. The big difference -- no gas. Since we
>>>>>> moved
>>>>>> in, we've taken steps to make the use of energy more efficient than
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> already was. All windows and doors have been replaced. The heat
>>>>>> pump
>>>>>> is now a high-efficiency model. The water heater is high efficiency.
>>>>>> We're replacing all the toilets with pressure flush models, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of the big helps is the windows. We had double glazed windows
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> the standard unsealed storms, but now all windows and door lights are
>>>>>> triple glazed. My Dad did triple glazing on the farm house where I
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> born in northern Indiana. Before he did it, he did the calculations
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> the energy savings. It turned out that the utility bill savings in a
>>>>>> single heating season was greater than the total added cost of the
>>>>>> triple glazing at all the windows. Bottom line, IMHO you can't
>>>>>> afford
>>>>>> not to do it. One of my colleagues at the university decided he
>>>>>> needed
>>>>>> to do the same thing to his house, so he's changing out his windows
>>>>>> at a
>>>>>> rate of one per year. He's doing it that way because of the limits
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> energy credits on income taxes. If he does one window per year, he
>>>>>> stays under $1000 per year and can get credits for the whole
>>>>>> conversion.
>>>>>> I suspect that he's being a bit short-sighted on that deal. He
>>>>>> probably
>>>>>> would save more money by getting the whole house converted so his
>>>>>> utility bills would be lower immediately.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Before the flames begin, you obviously can't have the house sealed as
>>>>>> well as it ends up being with triple glazed windows if you're using
>>>>>> natural or LP gas for anything inside unless you provide for
>>>>>> combustion
>>>>>> air. That's even taken care of in this house. It has combustion air
>>>>>> for the fireplace ducted to the hearth and the fireplace liner
>>>>>> provides
>>>>>> heat to the house through separate ducting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Larry
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
>>>>>> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of Indiana
>>>>>> Robinson
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 8:52 AM
>>>>>> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AT] OOOPS - Do as I say not as I do - now rambling off
>>>>>> topic
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 28 Jul 2005 at 8:00, George Willer wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > What!!! Turn the compressor off??? You've got to be kidding,
>>>>>> > Dean.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> > leave my system on 24/7/358, and have for many years. I do switch
>>>>>> > it
>>>>>> off
>>>>>> > when we go to Portland for the week. Having air instantly
>>>>>> > available
>>>>>> at any
>>>>>> > of the 8 outlets is just too handy to mess with turning it off
>>>>>> anywhere.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > For Portland week only I also turn the power off to the water
>>>>>> > system.
>>>>>> Do
>>>>>> > you turn your water off when you aren't using it also?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > George Willer
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also leave mine on 24-7 but I have to shut it off in cold
>>>>>> weather since my shop is
>>>>>> cold. It has trouble starting in cold weather. When we leave for more
>>>>>> than a day trip I
>>>>>> do shut the water (and water heater) off at the breaker box.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In a similar vein, 2 years ago my mother had a small leak
>>>>>> develop in an unused natural
>>>>>> gas wall furnace. it apparently started at the beginning of the
>>>>>> billing
>>>>>> cycle and when
>>>>>> the bill came it was $1800 high for the month. With the help of an
>>>>>> old
>>>>>> school friend (I
>>>>>> say "old" because he is a year older than I am) with the gas company
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> traced it to a
>>>>>> constant small leak to that extra furnace and shut down that line.
>>>>>> This
>>>>>> was not in the
>>>>>> heating season. The next bill had another $400 in "leak" cost on it.
>>>>>> Since it was on our
>>>>>> side of the meter they would forgive none of it. I never bothered to
>>>>>> look for the actual
>>>>>> leak but since all of that line was in the basement and a closed
>>>>>> crawl
>>>>>> space I am
>>>>>> assuming that it was leaking at the furnace electric control valve
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> venting to the
>>>>>> outside up on the roof. Otherwise we would have smelled it (or blown
>>>>>> up). I plan to
>>>>>> remove that area furnace and replace it with an electric baseboard
>>>>>> heater. It was an
>>>>>> expensive Warm Morning wall unit installed to heat 2 added rooms but
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> is quite noisy by
>>>>>> design. It sounds like a wind tunnel. I might even convert the whole
>>>>>> house to all
>>>>>> electric. One less bill each month. My present house is all electric
>>>>>> (except my pellet
>>>>>> stove heat {was wood}) and has been since we put it up 29 years ago
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> month. I have
>>>>>> been satisfied with the all electric. At times we thought about other
>>>>>> fuels when electric
>>>>>> got a bit high but then the other fuels would jump up and down,
>>>>>> mostly
>>>>>> up ;-) in
>>>>>> price. My electric heat has a thermostat in each room and is
>>>>>> completely
>>>>>> quiet. I have
>>>>>> been in houses where the furnace fan was so loud that you could
>>>>>> hardly
>>>>>> hear a TV above it
>>>>>> when it kicked on. My pellet stove is a tiny bit louder than I like
>>>>>> since it sits in a
>>>>>> nook very near my lazyboy but at least it is constant. When I move to
>>>>>> the other house,
>>>>>> probably next summer, I plan to put a large capacity corn / pellet
>>>>>> stove
>>>>>> in the basement
>>>>>> to provide most of the heat for the house and the regular basement
>>>>>> furnace (with a quiet
>>>>>> blower system) will be used to distribute the heat to the main floor.
>>>>>> The furnace burner
>>>>>> will come on only in very cold weather if I use it at all. I might
>>>>>> even
>>>>>> install electric
>>>>>> baseboard heat in the rest of the house to take up any possible slack
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> very cold
>>>>>> weather or I may use radiant hot water heat under the floors heated
>>>>>> by
>>>>>> the corn stove. I
>>>>>> would still like to get the gas out of the house altogether. Every
>>>>>> couple of years there
>>>>>> is a house destroyed by a gas explosion around here... House go boom,
>>>>>> fall down... :-)
>>>>>> There are 5 gas lines in that house. One for the furnace, one
>>>>>> for the second furnace,
>>>>>> one for the water heater, one for the dryer and another for an unused
>>>>>> gas heater that was
>>>>>> installed in the basement when the house was built on to years ago.
>>>>>> There is a large line
>>>>>> to the shop and another to the old milk house. Most of those lines
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> about 40 years old
>>>>>> now and the potential for leaks is getting higher. It does not take
>>>>>> many
>>>>>> $2200 leaks to
>>>>>> eat up any possible savings... :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> "farmer", Esquire
>>>>>> At Hewick Midwest
>>>>>> Wealth beyond belief, just no money...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paternal Robinson's here by way of Norway (Clan Gunn), Scottish
>>>>>> Highlands,
>>>>>> Cleasby Yorkshire England, Virginia, Kentucky then Indiana. In
>>>>>> America
>>>>>> 100
>>>>>> years
>>>>>> before the revolution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Francis Robinson
>>>>>> Central Indiana USA
>>>>>> robinson at svs.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> AT mailing list
>>>>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> AT mailing list
>>>>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________ NOD32 1.1180 (20050728) Information __________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>>>>>> http://www.eset.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> AT mailing list
>>>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>>> Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.6/59 - Release Date:
>>>>> 7/27/2005
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> AT mailing list
>>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> AT mailing list
>>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>> Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.6/59 - Release Date: 7/27/2005
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AT mailing list
>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> AT mailing list
> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.6/59 - Release Date: 7/27/2005
>
More information about the AT
mailing list