[Steam-engine] Medina Lawsuit Settlements

Fri Jul 15 04:15:32 PDT 2005

Beth,

I think you are pulling me far away from the original question, and that was why is John Schrock and Kunkle Valve being listed in the lawsuits.  I merely answered the question.  I realize that part of reasoning was being based on hear-say and part with articles I have read revolving around the explosion.  I never once said or indicated that I supported their reasoning.  Actually, I believe I said something to the effect that they, the lawyers, will go were ever they can to share blame and obtain more money.  Ultimately I believe that the owner was at fault, regardless of the condition of the boiler.  Because he alone made the decision to fire the engine up with what I have been led to believe was full knowledge of the current condition of the boiler.  In conjunction, he ran a boiler low in water, and in my opinion, with the deteriorated condition of the boiler, it reduced the time anyone would have had to react to the alarming condition.  How much time that would have allowed, I would be only guessing, and I won't make that mistake here.  But please let me reiterate, I firmly believe that Cliff and the other operator, I believe was his son, our solely responsible for the incident that fatal day.  Fact be known, a collection was taken up shortly after we first heard that John was being listed in the lawsuit, and I contributed to that pool.  I did this because I felt, as I have already explained, that he isn't responsible for Cliff's poor judgement.  I believe Rev. Jim Jake Templin response titled "Medina...shooting the messenger." explains it best.

I hope this clarifies my position and gets me off the hot seat for awhile.

Lawrence

-----Original Message-----
From: steam-engine-bounces at lists.stationary-engine.com
[mailto:steam-engine-bounces at lists.stationary-engine.com]On Behalf Of
BETH VANARSDALL
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 11:29 PM
To: 'Steam-engine mailing list'
Subject: RE: [Steam-engine] Medina Lawsuit Settlements

Lawrence,

Given all of the ramifications of how John's case comes out, it is my
opinion that we all need to be careful with throwing accusations around
without any documented facts.  This forum can be searched (google, dogpile
or Jeeves yourself or any of the members & you might be horrified at what
you discover) and our comments could be used to support the negative factors
of this situation.

I won't debate Briden's version, because the point is moot. 

Cliff made the decision as the engine owner and operator to operate it.
Period.  

Beth

-----Original Message-----
From: steam-engine-bounces at lists.stationary-engine.com
[mailto:steam-engine-bounces at lists.stationary-engine.com] On Behalf Of
Lawrence Swanz
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 8:20 AM
To: Steam-engine mailing list
Subject: RE: [Steam-engine] Medina Lawsuit Settlements

Beth,

You are correct to a certain extent about being careful making such
statements.  But I got the story from Jim Briden, who had had conversations
with John on this very topic.  Anyway, according to Jim, John told Cliff
that the boiler was in bad disarray and needed serious repair and suggested
replacing the entire boiler with one that he had found or had (not certain
on this).  According to Jim, Cliff thought it was too much money and he
didn't want to spend that much on the engine.  Once again, you are correct
that this is all hear say and speculation on my part.  Since, I myself
didn't have or was involved in the conversations at hand.  As a result I am
getting my information from a third party, but it does stand to reason that
the story would have some underlying facts to it following the condition the
boiler was found in after the explosion.

Lawrence

-----Original Message-----
From: steam-engine-bounces at lists.stationary-engine.com
[mailto:steam-engine-bounces at lists.stationary-engine.com]On Behalf Of
BETH VANARSDALL
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 6:11 PM
To: 'Steam-engine mailing list'
Subject: RE: [Steam-engine] Medina Lawsuit Settlements

Lawrence,

You may wish to be careful stating that John worked on the engine "knowing
the boiler was in shady condition, or at least he should have been aware of
it."   

I doubt any of us know the facts of what John knew or conveyed to Cliff and
others.  Do we have proof that used an ultra sound on the boiler to
determine its condition?  Do we know (have actual witness accounts) of the
discussions that he had with Cliff?

Bottom line is that it was Cliff's responsibility as the engine owner &
operator know his engine and operate it in a responsible manner.  

Beth

-----Original Message-----
From: steam-engine-bounces at lists.stationary-engine.com
[mailto:steam-engine-bounces at lists.stationary-engine.com] On Behalf Of
Lawrence Swanz
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 11:45 AM
To: Steam-engine mailing list
Subject: RE: [Steam-engine] Medina Lawsuit Settlements

Andre',

That may be so, "They have money".  But, if my memory serves correctly, I
believe I read in the Payton report that they tested the valve and it
wouldn't lift when pressurized to 200 lbs. or so.  But my mental response to
that statement in the article when I read it was, "an engine of roughly 16
tons was tossed in the air some 15 to 20 feet and pitched, I believe to the
right, and landed on its side.  Why would you think that a jar of such
magnitude wouldn't have an effect on various precision mechanisms as the
safety valve and pressure gage and other such items.  I agree with an
earlier email, it wasn't the safety valve that caused the explosion, but a
combination of low water and an extremely thinned crown sheet.  I believe
that is why they have gone after John Schrock, he worked on the engine
knowing the boiler was in shady condition, or at least he should have been
aware of it.  Bottom line, the sharks are looking for any and everybody that
they can blame this on to obtai!
 n more money to line their pockets with.  It was a tragedy in our hobby
that has haunted us ever since, and will continue to do so.  Let's just hope
that we all learned a valuable lesson from its outcome.

Lawrence

-----Original Message-----
From: steam-engine-bounces at lists.stationary-engine.com
[mailto:steam-engine-bounces at lists.stationary-engine.com]On Behalf Of
Andre' Blanchard
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 10:18 AM
To: Steam-engine mailing list
Subject: Re: [Steam-engine] Medina Lawsuit Settlements

They have money.
________
Andre' B.

At 09:38 AM 7/13/2005, you wrote:
>Why is Kunkle Valve being sued as well?  Aren't they safety valve 
>manufacturers and it was the crown sheet that failed not the safety valve.
>
>Rick
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Donaldson"
<ddonaldson at tampatank.com>
>To: "Steam-engine mailing list" <steam-engine at lists.stationary-engine.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 10:15 AM
>Subject: Re: [Steam-engine] Medina Lawsuit Settlements
>
>
>>Beth,
>>
>>    It may be none of my business, but why is John Schrock being sued for 
>> the Medina incident?
>>
>>Dan Donaldson
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "BETH VANARSDALL" 
>><24port at accesstoledo.com>
>>To: "'Steam-engine mailing list'"
<steam-engine at lists.stationary-engine.com>
>>Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 12:09 AM
>>Subject: [Steam-engine] Medina Lawsuit Settlements
>>
>>
>>>While I hate to bring the subject back up...I received an e-mail from
>>>England inquiring about the settlement of the lawsuits.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I found an article from the Cleveland Plain Dealer stating that 32 have
been
>>>settled, but that the family is still suing John Schrock & Kunkle Valve
as
>>>of July 1, 2005.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Might anyone have any FACTS and not spin?  I take news articles with a
huge
>>>grain of salt.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>In the mean time, let us continue a hot & dry (at least in this area)
safe
>>>steam season!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Beth
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Steam-engine mailing list
>>>http://www.stationary-engine.com/mailman/listinfo/steam-engine
>>
>>_______________________________________________
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>
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"With or without religion you would have good people doing good things and 
evil people doing evil things.
But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
- Dr. Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate, Physics
__________
Andre' B. 

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