[AT] Was Serious Restoration Now philosophy

[John Boehm]

Along these same lines, the latest issue of Two
Cylinder lists a serial number plate, original manual,
and some old photos for a John Deere Dain tractor.
Asking price is $25,000. Besides this plate, there are
3 known examples of this tractor; one is complete, one
running and misssing some original parts, and one that
is mostly a just a frame with serial tag. 

There is next to no chance of finding a "parts"
tractor to put this tag on. If someone buys it, what
will they do with it? Put it in a picture frame on the
wall (most likely a safe deposit box at the bank,
never to be seen in public again)? Try to build a
replica tractor to put it on at a prohibitive cost?
Even if they produced the replica tractor, the
existing real ones are well documented and serious
collectors would know that it was a replica. In my
mind, the replica would not be worth nearly as much as
one of the originals, even though the cost to produce
it would be astronomical. This hobby is getting crazy
when an 85 year old piece of brass measuring 3 inches
by 5 inches has that kind of price tag on it.

John Boehm
Woodland, CA
Visit my web site at http://vintagetractors.com


--- Guy Fay <fayguyma at execpc.com> wrote:

> Spencer,
> I think to some degree it depends on the project you
> are working on and 
> the standards that you use. I think putting a V-8
> into a Farmall M (to 
> use a extreme example) isn't a restoration. I think
> if you are 
> faithfully reproducing parts on a project in which
> original parts simply 
> can't be found, it can be a restoration. I don't
> know if there's a 
> standard or hard and fast rule.
> 
>  From a historic preservation standpoint, one
> important factor is to 
> document what you've done, so someone in the furture
> can tell what's 
> original, what isn't, so that there isn't a creep
> throughout history of 
> what actually happened. A good case in point is
> decals. IH changed the 
> names on decals from McCormick-Deering to
> IH-McCormick Deering, then to 
> IH-McCormick, in the span of the production of the
> Farmall M, for 
> instance. Farmers got their tractors repainted, and
> got the newer 
> decals. Then through the years, the sons and
> daughters forgot that this 
> replacement happened, so now a lot of people think
> that the newer decals 
> were what was on the tractor when it came off the
> line, and it just 
> isn't so.
> 
> There's some bad parts being produced these days,
> and some good parts. 
> Maybe the best way is to keep your receipts, show
> what's been done with 
> the tractor, and pass it along to new owners. Have a
> display board that 
> you show with.
> 
> I remember seeing a early variant of a P-51 at
> Oshkosh many years ago. 
> It had essentially been built around a serial number
> plate. But the guy 
> brought the photographs, explained the process.
> Maybe it wasn't a 
> restoration, maybe it was, but it was definitly the
> only flying example 
> of that variant left, and I think it was worth the
> effort.
> 
> That's kind of where some of these early tractors
> are at. If kids are 
> going to be able to see these things, these huge
> efforts are neccessary. 
> The big old stuff doesn't trailer real well, and
> having a few of these 
> spread out around the country is the way for folks
> to see them. I've 
> driven one of the Type As described on another of
> Craig's webpages, 
> and.....it's an expierience to be savored.
> 
> Even if you consider these to be re-creations rather
> than restorations, 
> the man-hours and effort that goes into these
> tractors is enough to make 
> them signifigant. The guys that are involved in
> these restorations do 
> make every effort to use original parts, because
> original parts are 
> still going to be cheaper than patterns, castings,
> and machining. But 
> sometimes, it just isn't possible. There's one IH
> tractor model that has 
> about 1/10th of a tractor surviving, basically most
> of the engine. The 
> owner isn't real convinced that he's going to pursue
> that project, but 
> in case he finds the rest of it.....8)
> 
> Not to mention that there's several IH tractor
> models that were 
> essentially preproduction tractors sold to the
> public, but that no known 
> example survives. The Mogul 20-40 does have some
> historical 
> signifigance, and I would like to see one recreated
> some day. Limited 
> engineering drawings exist, maybe? One of the
> Steward tractors would be 
> nice, since they sort of lead the way to the
> Farmall, but I've only seen 
> photographs. A Deering 30-60, just for the pure
> insanity of that model- 
> there's three photos of that one. The Waite?
> Streamlined tractor in 
> 1914. One photograph.
> 
> Spencer Yost wrote:
> 
> >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >On 1/17/2005 at 9:01 PM Guy Fay wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>I know that the last time I posted one of these,
> that some of you 
> >>sniffed that casting new parts wasn't a REAL
> restoration. So you don't 
> >>have to click the links if you don't want to.
> Everybody else-Craig 
> >>Anderson's put up some pages about the restoration
> of a Mogul 45 that 
> >>came out of a river bank.
> >>http://www.andersonofrosholt.com/17501.html
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >Guy's post begs the question:  "What has to be left
> of the original tractor
> >for the process of refurbishment to be called 'a
> restoration of an original
> >tractor?'"  If engine or frame is gone, is this no
> longer a restoration but
> >the manufacture of a replica?   Do you _have_ to
> use used parts?  If all
> >that is left is the serial number tag, is that
> sufficient to call it a
> >restoration of an original tractor?.
> >
> >In other words we all have included some used, some
> new and some
> >Metal-shop/foundry/home made parts in a
> restoration.   Where is the line
> >crossed from "a restoration of an original tractor"
> into "making a replica
> >of an original tractor"?.
> >
> >I have wanted to start this discussion, and Guy's
> post gives me the chance.
> >
> >Spencer Yost
> >Owner, ATIS
> >Plow the Net!
> >http://www.atis.net
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >AT mailing list
> >http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> 
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