[AT] Acrylic enamel paint hardner????

Fri Feb 4 10:44:36 PST 2005

Louis,  you are getting to the heart of my question.   From reading some 
post on this subject here on the list it would appear that you could just 
add any old hardner to any old paint and it would work.
That is basically my question.

As for the differences in industrial and automotive paint, they are not as 
big as you might believe.  For example, and unless something has changed in 
the last few years, all of the polyurethane in the US is made by one company 
in one plant in Texas.  ( I forget the name of the company right now.  Rohm 
and Hass I think.)  The difference in Dupont Imron and other urethanes is 
the way that the colorants and additives are formulated.  The base of the 
paint, the polyurethane, is the  same.  Dupont has a patent on the stuff 
they add to make it thick or thin and the way they put color in.

A few years ago we painted some flight line equipment for the US Air Force 
(compressors, light carts, gensets, etc).  We used off the shelf  ICI Devoe 
Industrial Polyurethane.  We strained it and sprayed it with a quart cup 
sprayer like a body shop would have used.  Except for some occasional orange 
peel (which we have established as a common problem with polyurethane) the 
stuff came out as slick and shiny as most new cars.   It was so glossy that 
every little thing showed on the finish.  Water spots, bugs that got on 
there in transport from out shop, etc.  stuck out like a sore thumb.  I 
fixed the problem by stopping at an auto supply and getting a bottle of that 
stuff that you spray on and wipe off to gloss cars out and get rid of water 
spots.   I would stop about a mile from the base and wipe them down before I 
took them to be accepted.

Any  way the main thing I wanted to clearify is if you can add any hardner 
to any enamel/alkyd/oil based paint.  That is what some of the messages 
seemed to imply.

Thanks

Charlie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Louis Spiegelberg" <louis at kellnet.com>
To: "'Antique tractor email discussion group'" 
<at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 12:37 PM
Subject: RE: [AT] Acrylic enamel paint hardner????

> Charlie,
>
> There is quite a difference between automotive and industrial paint.  They
> are formulated for different applications.  Hardener has been around for
> years for automotive paint.  If you go to a NAPA that sells paint, they
> should be able to get you hardener for paint.  There is a difference 
> between
> hardener for synthetic (alkyd) and acrylic enamels.  I ran short of 
> hardener
> one day for synthetic, so I figured that I could use hardener for acrylic.
> The normal pot life is 4 hours.  I sprayed my first coat of paint.  I came
> back a few minutes later to shoot my second coat.  The paint had all 
> gelled
> in my gun by that time. What a mess to clean up.
>
> Hardener adds durability, gloss, and color hold out to the paint.  It also
> helps it cure quicker.
>
> Lou
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com
> [mailto:at-bounces at lists.antique-tractor.com] On Behalf Of charlie hill
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 10:58 AM
> To: Antique tractor email discussion group
> Subject: Re: [AT] Acrylic enamel paint hardner????
>
>
> Here is what makes me interested in this topic.   I've read enough 
> accounts
> from folks on the list that I'm certain that using hardner with plain old
> enamel paint can be done.  The knowledge of this list is testiment to 
> that.
> However, I've been involved with industrial painting projects for over 20
> years.  I've used all kinds of exotic epoxies, urethanes, acrylics, 
> vinyls,
> etc. and I've never seen or heard of (except on this list) anyone using
> hardner with an enamel.
>
> When I first saw it mentioned on the list I asked a friend/business 
> partner
> who has been and industrial painter since he got out of high school in the
> early 60's and now owns his own company.
> He had never heard of anyone doing it.  I asked one of the industrial reps
> for ICI Devoe coatings and he had never heard of it.
>
> All of this just seems strange to me.  It leads me to believe that 
> somewhere
>
> out in the heartland someone just decided to try it and lo and behold it
> worked.
>
> I sure would like to know how.  I have to agree with one of the other 
> posts.
>
> The hardner is probably in fact a plastic and the enamel paint just 
> becomes
> the colorant and body of the home made epoxy that results from the 
> mixture.
> I'd be interested to see some of this paint tested along side other 2
> component paints to see how it holds up in terms of gloss retention and 
> film
>
> degredation.
>
> Does anyone know of a manufacturer that makes a hardener specifically for
> enamel paint and comes as a kit?
>
> Charlie
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Spencer Yost" <yostsw at atis.net>
> To: <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 8:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [AT] Acrylic enamel paint hardner????
>
>
>> I'll tell you what I know from experience:
>>
>> 1 - It is clear
>> 2 - It will add gloss to the finished paint(so if you are looking for
>> semi gloss look, don't start with a semi-glass paint.  You'll end up
>> with something close to high gloss.  Start with a semi gloss and add a
>> touch of flattening paint first) 3 - It will tack off in about the
>> same time but final cure will be sooner
>>
>> Now I will tell you what I am guessing:
>>
>> I have been told it a polyurethane based catalyst, so I presume a
>> chemical reaction and not just a component in the paint that dries
>> hard.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> Spencer Yost
>> Owner, ATIS
>> Plow the Net!
>> http://www.atis.net
>>
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>
>> On 2/4/2005 at 2:40 AM John Wilkens wrote:
>>
>>>I found some fast dry acrylic equipment enamel that I like real
>>>well--and at a great price.  It's made by Nason.  The paint dealer
>>>(Baxter Auto) said any acrylic enamel paint hardner would work fine
>>>with it.  Question is, how
>>>does the hardner work?  Is it just a clear liquid that mixes with the
>>>paint
>>>and dries a lot harder, or does it somehow chemically react with the 
>>>paint
>>
>>>to make it cure to a harder finish---something like two-part epoxy
>>>paint?  I've asked this question at the local paint shops, and even to
>>>some auto paint guys but they never seem to be able to answer this
>>>question.  All suggestions will be most welcome!   John W. ...still
>>>striving for something better than the usual orange peel paint job!
>>>
>>>                    In the wide-open spaces of NE Oregon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>AT mailing list http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>
>>
>>
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