[atis] Re: [AT] OT: wheel packer question

Sat Dec 31 07:24:18 PST 2005

Steve,

There is no shaft involved.  This is the seal (gasket) between the upper 
chain case and the lower chain case.  The lower chain sprocket and drive 
axle are in the lower case.  The case itself is rectangular.  It is held 
onto the upper case with two bushings that allow the lower case to rock 
slightly from side to side.

The top side (mating side) of the lower case has a groove cut in it that is 
1/2" deep and 3/4" wide.  The groove is rectangular and the corners are 
square, not rounded.  The gasket outer dimensions are aprox. 5" X 12".  If 
you cut it, the cross section would be T shaped.  The leg would go in the 
groove and the top of the T would be the thick part that expands and 
contracts.

When bolted up tight, there is a 1/4" gap between the upper and lower cases. 
This is the amount that it can rock back and forth.  The seal fits in the 
groove on the lower unit and fills this gap.  It has to be able to expand to 
nearly 1/2" and then compress to nearly nothing.  A hard seal would not 
allow the lower unit to rock on the bushings.

The seal we took out was obviously poured in place.  You can see the beads 
that were laid in place.  At first I thought it was RTV silicone, but when 
we got it out, it was a much harder material.  It leaked because it had lost 
the ability to expand enough to fill the gap.  80/90 that dripped off the 
chain when you were on a side slope would hit the inside of the upper chain 
case and then run down and out the gap where the seal once was.

We have no idea if this was the original seal or if it was an attempt to 
make a replacement.  I think the design is basically flawed.  For one thing, 
the rocking motion of one sprocket on a chain drive has got to be hard on 
that sprocket and the chain.

If we can't find a seal (gasket) we may have to either try to shim out the 
rocking motion, or use the corn head grease idea.

At least now, we have some ideas to work with and I appreciate every one of 
them.

Thanks everybody!

Stuart

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve W." <falcon at telenet.net>
To: "Antique tractor email discussion group" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: [atis] Re: [AT] OT: wheel packer question

> Stuart,
> How large is the area that the seal has to cover? Also rough idea of
> the size of the seal base and the opening that the shaft has to come
> out, and how long could the seal be? As I understand it this seal does
> NOT have a rotating shaft in it correct, just sealing an opening to hold
> grease/oil while allowing the rectangular shaft to move inside it. If
> that is the case it wouldn't be that hard to find a boot style seal
> (like those used on the axles of cars over the CV joints) that would do
> the job.
>
> Steve Williams
> Near Cooperstown, New York
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Stuart Harner" <sharner at starband.net>
> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group"
> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 9:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [atis] Re: [AT] OT: wheel packer question
>
>
>> Charlie,
>>
>> Although the seal I am looking for is not for the shaft (it is
> rectangular)
>> that is still a very good idea.  Here we have Interstate Bearing, that
> we do
>> quite a lot of business with.
>>
>> In this county, the other than our maintainers that are leased, every
> other
>> piece of equipment is something that someone else did not want.  From
> our
>> 1950's tar truck to the newest acquisition, a 1970's Stieger tractor
> (it had
>> a factory 8 track player in it).  We do have 2 pickups from the 90's.
> If we
>> want to use something, we have to keep it running, no matter what it
> takes.
>>
>> Like Red Green says:  "If women don't find you handsome, they should
> at
>> least find you handy".
>>
>> Thanks for the suggestion,
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "charlie hill" <chill8 at cox.net>
>> To: "Antique tractor email discussion group"
> <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 3:17 PM
>> Subject: [atis] Re: [AT] OT: wheel packer question
>>
>>
>> > Stewart,  I don't know where you live but in most towns of any size
> or
>> > where there is some industrial plants there are bearing supply
> houses.
>> > The big one here in our area used to be called Dixie Bearing and it
> was a
>> > regional if not national outfit.  However, they changed
> names/ownership
>> > and I can't remember the name now.
>> >
>> > Anyway, if you can find one of these stores, all they sell is
> bearings,
>> > seals, PT chain, etc.  If you can tell them the inner and outer
> diameter
>> > of the seal and it's thickness they can most likely find you one
> that
>> > works.  I know you don't have a seal to go by but you can measure
> the OD
>> > of the shaft and the ID of the hub plus the depth.
>> >
>> > Look in the yellow pages under bearings, power transmission and
> industrial
>> > supplies.  You should be able to find someone.  In fact they
> probably have
>> > web sites these days.
>> >
>> > Charlie
>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> > From: "Stuart Harner" <sharner at starband.net>
>> > To: "atis" <at at lists.antique-tractor.com>
>> > Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 12:05 PM
>> > Subject: [AT] OT: wheel packer question
>> >
>> >
>> > Since things seem a little slow for tractor discussion, I will ask
> for
>> > some help that is sort of tractor related.
>> >
>> > I work for the County road dept. in the summer and we have an old
> wheel
>> > packer that needs some repairs.
>> >
>> > This unit has four tires on the front axle and six in the back.
> There is
>> > a large "tub" that is filled with gravel for weight.  On the sides
> are
>> > placards saying "Ferguson".  The data plate on the front says made
> by
>> > Shovel Supply, Dallas TX.  Unfortunately, someone pushed this packer
> from
>> > the front and wiped the model and serial numbers from the plate.  We
> even
>> > removed it to see if we could read the stampings from the back, but
> there
>> > were rocks between the plate and the frame so the back was damaged
> too.
>> >
>> > The engine and drive train is an Oliver tractor, probably a 770 or
> 880.
>> > There is an Oliver data plate on it.
>> >
>> > The rear drive wheels are run by large roller chains that come down
> from
>> > the axles of the Oliver.  Of the 6 wheels on the back, the two outer
> ones
>> > on each side are actually drive wheels that are connected to the
> chain
>> > case. The center two wheels are just "tag" axles.
>> >
>> > The lower unit of the drive wheel holds the axle, bearings and chain
>> > sprocket.  They are attached to the chain case with bronze bushings
> that
>> > allow the lower unit to pivot slightly from side to side.  I suspect
> that
>> > this is to let one tire ride up over a bump without putting all the
> weight
>> > on that tire.
>> >
>> > The lower unit is filled to the axle level with 80/90 grease that
> also
>> > lubes the chain and sprockets.  There is a seal between the lower
> unit and
>> > the upper chain case.  This seal has to compress and expand to
> accommodate
>> > the rocking from side to side that the lower unit does.  On our
> machine,
>> > the seals are shot and all the grease runs out if you are on any
> kind of a
>> > side slope.  We don't know if the seals are original or if someone
> has
>> > improvised in the past.  In any case, the current seals look like
> they
>> > were poured in place.  It is a rubbery compound (not RTV) but you
> can
>> > definitely see the beads that were laid out.
>> >
>> >>From the research I was able to do on the web, it looks like this
> was a
>> >>10-12 ton packer probably built in the mid to late '60's.  I have
> not been
>> >>able to find any source for parts or manuals.  If anyone has any
>> >>information that they can provide I would appreciate it.  Even ideas
> on
>> >>how to make a new seal for the lower unit.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Stuart
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > AT mailing list
>> > Remembering Our Friend Cecil Monson 11-4-2005
>> > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>> >
>> >
>> > -- 
>> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> > Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.9/216 - Release Date:
> 12/29/2005
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > AT mailing list
>> > Remembering Our Friend Cecil Monson 11-4-2005
>> > http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> AT mailing list
>> Remembering Our Friend Cecil Monson 11-4-2005
>> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> AT mailing list
> Remembering Our Friend Cecil Monson 11-4-2005
> http://www.antique-tractor.com/mailman/listinfo/at
> 